In today’s episode, I have my good friend Leah McHugh on the show where we discuss the differences and buzz around co-working spaces and co-living spaces.

Leah McHugh has been traveling for the best part of the last 10 years and doesn’t plan on stopping anytime soon. She got sick of fighting with TSA, so developed liquid-free shampoos and conditioners called Get Dirty With Me. You can use the hair powders dry for hair refreshing or add water for hair washing… Which is awesome because this is annoying at airports and Leah came up with a solution!

We mention this briefly at the beginning of the episode and then we jump into our topic.

Leah has been travelling all over the world and has tried out both co-living and co-working spaces… Whereas at the time of recording I hadn’t tried out either. I have since been to a few co-working spaces and loved them, but now have my eyes set on trying out a co-living space I’ve linked to down below in the resources section.

In this episode, we discuss the difference between the two and why you would want to be using either one. Leah brings her experience to the table in this episode and really gets be excited to try a few of the places out she mentions on the show

Enjoy the episode dudes and dudettes!

*fist bump*

Oh, and here’s a picture of Leah and I when we got to hang out in San Diego last year:

Leah and LBT in San Diego


  • Benefits of co-living spaces
  • Benefits of co-working spaces
  • Networking opportunities and networking
  • Why not just stick with a cafe?


Wanna connect with Leah?



Read Full Transcript

LT: So, Leah, how have you been? It’s been a while since we last saw each other back in San Diego.

LM: Yeah, I’ve been good. I’m in Australia right now where it is very hot, which you probably don’t want to hear, being in Canada.

LT: Yeah, I don’t mind the hot or the cold; it just takes me a little while to acclimatise.

LM: Yeah. Fair enough.

LT: So whereabouts are you in Australia?

LM: I’m an hour north of Sydney, which is actually where I grew up. I’m visiting my dad at the moment, before heading to Thailand in January.

LT: Now I’m jealous. Thailand is sort of, like, next on my list probably. I’ve got, like, a small list of places that I’m considering next, but Thailand is on there.

LM: Yeah. It’s been on my list for a while too and it seems like a lot of people I know are heading there the beginning of next year, so got to do it. And I’m close.

LT: You’ll definitely a lot of fun, for sure.

LM: Oh yeah. No, no doubt.

LT: So I did give you a little bit of an intro earlier on, but if you would like to tell all the dudes and dudettes a little bit more about yourself and your background, how long you’ve been a nomad for; that sort of good stuff. So fire away.

LM: Yeah. So I have been a nomad, I mean, really, on and off since I was 20. That was when I first started travelling, but I was more of a backpacker back then, working in bars and stuff. But I started being a digital nomad about two years ago, and I was already working in ecommerce so it was a pretty easy transition. My job was pretty much all online already; I just did it in an office. So rather than doing that for one person, I switched to clients and hit the road and then decided I don’t really like working with clients and started to run my own businesses instead.

LT: I definitely feel you with the clients thing. I’m not a massive fan of working with clients.

LM: Yeah.

LT: Not as, like, the main source of income. But, yeah, I feel you there.

LM: Yeah. It’s a lot nicer to make money for yourself, rather than making money for other people, so.

LT: For sure, for sure.

LM: But, yeah, so I’ve been travelling around. This last year, I think, I was moving around, like, once a month, which I do not recommend. That was way, way too much moving. So next year hopefully I’ll stay for at least three months in a place. We’ll see.

LT: Yeah. See, three months is sort of, like, what I would think would be ideal, but I have done, like, the faster-paced stuff where it’s, like, weeks in places or – yeah, I think the shortest time I spent in a single country is one month. It’s something I definitely recommend people should try out, but – you know, just to see whether or not long-term or short-term travel is your thing.

LM: Yeah.

LT: But, yeah, I’d definitely recommend it at least. At least try it once.

LM: Yeah. I like to not have a set amount of time before I arrive. I like to actually get there and see if I like it and then decide, but this last year I took the mantra of not having a plan and seeing where life took me. And apparently life took me to a new place every month, so.

LT: Well, that is a good plan to have, though.

LM: Yeah, yeah. No, I have no regrets; just maybe time to slow down.

LT: So I hear on the grapevine - - -

LM: Yes.

LT: - - - that you have some sort of, like, travel-friendly shampoo. Now, just quickly before we dive into this topic, what is that about?

LM: Yeah. So I actually made this for myself because I like to not check my bags, which means liquid shampoos aren’t really an option. And I tried to do the bar soap or the bar shampoos, and my hair didn’t really like it. So then I decided to shave my head, and after I had no hair I came up with this idea for a powdered shampoo. So I’ve been testing it on my hair since it’s been growing, and I’ve been working on it for about a year now. And it’s about ready to go onto the market. So it’s a dry shampoo but you can use it dry to sort of refresh your hair, but you can also add water and use it to wash your hair. So it’s a lot lighter than a regular shampoo and it’s security-friendly; you can take it in your carry-on, no one really cares. Surprisingly, no one cares about white powders in your bag when you go through security. Seriously, I’ve been travelling with samples a year and no one has questioned it, which is a little concerning. But - - -

LT: But it is good for you, though.

LM: Yeah, it is. To the point that I’ve even had them take the bottles out of my bag because they saw a bottle and thought it was liquid and then went, “Oh, it’s powder,” and just threw it back in my bag, so.

LT: That’s good.

LM: Yeah.

LT: So do you have, like, a website or anything?

LM: Yeah.

LT: So it’s not on for sale yet at the moment, is it?

LM: No, it should be the beginning of next year. It’s called

LT: Sweet. I’ll make sure that goes in the show notes for today.

LM: Awesome.

LT: And I’ll definitely be buying some of that myself because I hate travelling around with, like, the travel-size stuff.

LM: Yeah. Because it lasts, like, two washes.

LT: Yeah. Especially the amount that I use because I love my hair.

LM: And you have quite long hair.

LT: Well, since we last met I have had a haircut. So it’s no longer merman length; it is now sort of, like, just below my, like, collarbone. But still pretty long.

LM: I’m surprised I didn’t try to get you to use it in San Diego, actually. Missed opportunity.

LT: It was, it was. We could have done a better plug right now, if I had.

LM: I think I had run out of the samples by the time I got to San Diego because I was on my way here.

LT: Good excuse, good excuse.

LM: So next time I’ll send you some. I know where you are.

LT: Perfect. So the topic I wanted to talk about is something that I don’t have any experience with at the moment. It’s something that I want to sort of, like, try out after I’m done with Canada. But I know it’s something that you’ve had a lot of experience with, so that’s why I wanted to have you come on to help sort of, like, guide this conversation about co-working and co-living spaces. So if you guys don’t know what they are, a co-working space is – actually, I’ll let you talk about it, Leah. You can explain the difference seeing as you’ve experienced both of them.

LM: Yeah. Okay. So a co-working space is essentially a communal office. And you have different options; a lot of the times they’ll be private areas, if you want your own office within the co-working. But it’s a managed office that you can use. You can rent a desk or you can rent a space there. Generally – and I say generally – they have reliable internet. They usually have meeting rooms, Skype rooms; things like that. So while you’re travelling, it gives you a base to work out of. And then a co-living. Again, these sort of – each one’s a little bit different. But the co-living is basically the co-working plus you also get a living space which is also shared with other digital nomads, generally. And (inaudible)

LT: Yeah. And some of the – sorry, say that again?

LM: There are more and more of those popping up, the co-living. There are even a few networks where you can go – it’s like an international lease, so you can stay at any of their properties all over the world for that year. But then you’re agreeing to pay for the entire year.

LT: Yeah. When I was doing some research for this, I did find a couple, like, ones that are growing, quite quickly actually, over in Spain. And that is, like, one of the places that I am, like, considering going to next, at least before the whole Brexit thing kicks in and I’ll then have to start worrying about visas. But, yeah, I’ve seen them definitely grow in popularity, especially in Tenerife. I found a couple there. And especially if you’re, like, into, like, the water sports and stuff. Yeah. I think Spain could definitely be – it’s high on my list for the next place to go to, that’s for sure, and I’ll definitely check out the co-working.

LM: Yeah. So I was just staying at one in Las Palmas in the Canary Islands, not far from Tenerife.

LT: Yep.

LM: And same thing; they have a lot of – you know, you can go snorkelling just, like, a five-minute walk from the co-living apartment. You can rent surfboards. You can get all the equipment from them. They can arrange trips, events; things like that. And I think right now they’re doing Digital Nomad City where they’re having a whole bunch of digital nomads descend on Las Palmas, and they have a whole bunch of talks and events specifically for the digital nomads.

LT: That’s pretty cool, actually. I’m going to have to find out some more information about that. That’d be something that I would love to get involved with. And this is actually one of the points that I made on my notes was about, like, the co-living, like, abroad; like, how big it is getting. And the fact that, like, a lot of these now are cheaper than what it would cost you for, like, a hostel or a hotel. And it’s not really that much more than what it would cost if you just went and rented a place yourself. Obviously, like you said, it is a co-living space so you are going to be living with other people; you wouldn’t be, like, renting one out to yourself. But I have seen a few of them as small as, like, two or three other, like, housemates. But your housemates are going to be other digital nomads or location-independent entrepreneurs that are trying to build their businesses, and they want to be surrounded by, you know, similar sort of people to them. And the cool thing with most of the ones that I’ve found is that they do organise, like, group activities for you to do.

Like I said, the one that I found in Tenerife, the website that I found was called I’ll put the link to that in the show notes as well, but they – there was a small fee attached if you wanted to do a lot of the – like, the scuba diving or, like, parasailing; you know, some of them sort of, like, bigger activities there was, like, an extra fee on top but it wasn’t really that much. But a lot of these places do put on, like, activities for you, which I thought was, well, awesome actually. You know, it saves you having to go find all this stuff out for yourself, which is fun but it’s also nice to have that sort of stuff done for you and, you know, it’s a good way to bond with the people that you’re going to be sharing a place with for the next week, two weeks, three months. So I thought that was – that was something I wanted to bring up and see whether or not you’ve had any experience with – you know, the few co-living spaces that you’ve been to, whether or not they do put on sort of, like, these group activities.

LM: Yeah. A lot of them do. I think a lot of them realise that we aren’t just there to work; we’re there because we want to do things as well. So there’s been a bit of a mix. Some of them are, like, really activity-oriented; some of them will just have agreements with other people. So, like, the one I was staying in in Las Palmas, they had an agreed rate for all water activity rentals. I think it was something like €50 for the entire month, and you could rent as many surfboards, paddleboards, wet suits that you wanted, which is amazing.

LT: Wow. That’s really good.

LM: Yeah. But they weren’t actually putting any events on themselves for that, but you could go and do that with another vendor. But they did do a lot of things like pitch nights; we had a few parties at the co-living place; we did, like, an international party where everyone had to bring food from their home country, which we ended up with a lot of Dutch food because there was a lot of Dutch people.

LT: What is a popular Dutch food?

LM: There’s a lot of potato.

LT: Sorry for all you Dutch listeners; I didn’t know.

LM: It was delicious, but, yeah, we ended up with a lot of Dutch food. But, yeah, so these are – I feel like this is the first accommodation that is specifically designed for this lifestyle, and the people running them realise that. So they do make a point of trying to balance that, having that work environment but then also having the social aspect and a good home space. And it’s nice because everybody – I kind of think of them like hostels for grown-ups.

LT: That is a good way of looking at it.

LM: Yeah. So you’ve got the social aspect, but everybody also respects the work space and the work time. And if you say that you have to work on something, no one’s going to have you a hard time about that because they understand; they’re doing the same thing. So I think it’s, like, the best of both worlds, and you have this automatic network and automatic family when you arrive because they’re all in the same place as you are as far as, like - - -

LT: Yeah. And I think this is a great thing for someone that hasn’t tried the nomad lifestyle out just yet.

LM: Yeah.

LT: I think this is a good sort of, like, dip your toes in the water to see whether or not, you know, this sort of lifestyle is for you is to check out one of those co-living spaces, especially if you haven’t met other people, you know, who want to be nomads or, like, doing the online business thing. This is definitely a great thing to check out for, like, your first trip abroad, for sure.

LM: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first time I stayed at one I was actually dragged, kicking and screaming, by my friend. But we were staying in a surf camp next door to the co-living place; we just happened to be staying right near one. And she wanted to go there because the surf camp’s wi-fi didn’t work with her computer for some reason. And I was like, “Why? We can work from here. It’s fine.” But it’s just being around people that understand that you’re there to work. I mean, we were constantly having to explain to these surfers why we were on our laptop instead of going out surfing or why we weren’t drinking or – I mean, obviously we do that stuff as well but, you know, what allows us to travel for this long is that we have to do some work too.

LT: Exactly.

LM: So it was really nice to actually get in a space where people were doing the same stuff as us and didn’t question when you said, “No, I have to do this,” or, “No, I have a call. I can’t come.”

LT: Yeah.

LM: And they understand the other – like, the sad – not the sad parts, but the harder parts of digital nomading as well. I mean, there aren’t very many people that you can complain to about not appreciating the beach anymore except maybe digital nomads.

LT: Yeah, it does get old fairly quickly.

LM: Yeah.

LT: Especially as I did spend six months living on a beach when I was in Fiji. That eventually became a prison.

LM: Well, you just don’t – like, you just look at it and it’s no longer amazing. You’re just kind of like “huh”.

LT: Yeah. When you’re around it constantly, yeah, it loses its charm after a while.

LM: Yeah. And I think I was already a little numb to it, growing up in Australia, so.

LT: Yeah, you are kind of blessed with some really good beaches in Australia.

LM: Yeah. It’s funny when I travel with other friends and they’re like, “This is beautiful.” And I’m like, “It’s okay.”

LT: Yeah. It’s Australia.

LM: Yeah.

LT: Cool. So do you want to bring up one of the points that you’ve written down.

LM: Yeah. So, for me, I think a lot of the places I’ve gone to in my business has been through people I’ve met through co-working. And, again, I’m not going there specifically to network; it’s just that you happen to meet people who are in the same field as you or are in similar fields as you. So, like, the manufacture of my shampoo I found through a recommendation of a girl that I met in a co-working; one of my business partners I met in a co-living space. So just having that ability to be around people who can either help your business – even just by talking about your business, you end up getting help. I mean, you can’t really talk to people who don’t have their own business in-depth about what you’re doing because they don’t really care.

LT: That is true.

LM: So it’s really good to be able to have these long conversations. And you become a bit of, like, a little entrepreneur family. So we do have long conversations about what we’re doing and we do help each other out. And, you know, if you’re struggling with a piece of code on your website, like, oh, there are, like, five developers sitting right across from you. And they’re always happy to help; all you have to do is, like, maybe buy them a beer later. So having that community around me, I feel, has been such a large part of where I am now in my businesses. I don’t think I would’ve gotten to the same place had I not been staying in co-living/co-working places.

LT: For sure. I mean, this is one of the points that I had written down as well was, like, the networking opportunities that you don’t necessarily go and search for when you’re, like, in these sorts of environments. But, you know, you just happen to fall onto someone who could end up taking your business to the next level or, like you said, you know, you end up chatting to a developer that could help you out with a little bit of coding that’s been pissing you off for the last, you know, weeks or months. But especially if you travel by yourself as well – like, this sort of lifestyle definitely gets lonely very quickly.

LM: Yeah.

LT: So, you know, going to, like, the co-working or the co-living spaces, yeah, you get to meet people that understand what you’re going through and, like, what you’re trying to achieve. And like you said, there’s no judgment from these people when you say, “No, I’ve got to stay back and, you know, do X, Y and Z for my business.” You know, these people understand you. And you could also end up finding, like, potential business partners, like you said; that’s how you found your one for the shampoo. That happened to be in a co-living space. But then you could also find potential clients when you’re, like, in these co-living and co-working spaces.

LM: Oh yeah, absolutely. If you do digital marketing – like, I wish – well, I don’t wish. But if I were still taking on clients, this would’ve been huge. If you’re in digital marketing, so many people need digital marketing help in these spaces. Because, you know, everyone has their area of expertise and suddenly they’re having to market themselves. So we regularly are having conversations about things like sales funnels, Facebook ads; all of that fun stuff. So, yeah, absolutely. If you’re looking for clients, it is such a good place to be in.

LT: Well, I think digital nomads are sort of, like – if you do that sort of work, you know, digital nomads are the ideal client because they want to try and get as much off of their plate as possible so they can go and experience these things, you know, do all these surfing retreats and all that sort of stuff.

LM: Right.

LT: So if that is your - - -

LM: And they’re not (inaudible) 9 to 5 help; they don’t care what time of day it is.

LT: Exactly. So they’re happy to work around your schedule just as much as you are to work around theirs. So, yeah, definitely, like, the networking opportunities are ridiculous.

LM: Yeah. But I find that even just talking to people; it’s just really nice to be able to have these conversations. And even if you’re not talking about your business, because you’re talking about things related to it you will often just get clarity on things or suddenly something won’t seem like a big deal anymore. Something that you’ve been freaking out for and then someone comes along and they have, like, a way bigger problem and they’re just like “eh”. It gives you, like, a frame of reference, like, “Oh, this actually is not that big a deal.”

LT: Yeah, it definitely puts things into a new perspective for you.

LM: Yeah. And there is such a range of people that you meet. Some of them are just getting started in their business; some of them are extremely successful in what they do and have been doing it for a really long time. So it’s really good; you get to see people in each stage of their business, and it gives you an idea of what to expect or gives you a reference of where you used to be and how far you’ve come.

LT: For sure. I mean, I went to, like – when we met in San Diego, that was the first live event that I had been to. And, you know, like you said, you know, you meet people in different stages of business, whether or not they are just getting started or whether they’re extremely successful and making six figures, seven figures a year. You know, these – even though from a distance or online, you know, these people – you may feel like they wouldn’t give you the time of day because you’re not at their level, you know, when you are in these sorts of environments, that doesn’t happen.

LM: Right.

LT: You know, it’s the lifestyle that you, like, gel on. And then you just – they’ll happily help you out with, like, questions that you have about online business.

LM: Right. Like, I’ve met so many influencers just, like, who were drunk at my house or who we met out at dinner. Like, they’re just there. And it’s not – I mean, you know, you probably don’t want a fan girl at them or anything like that. But they’re just there and they’re a part of your life. You walk out of your room and like, “Oh, you’re in my living room. Oh, hello.”

LT: That’s quite funny actually, because I met my mentors for the first time in San Diego where, you know, we got drunk a few times. But then when I came to Toronto, which is where they lived at the time, yeah, I ended up going round their house a few times and we had a few, like, PlayStation and beers. So, yeah.

LM: Yeah. It’s just so cool. It’s, like, you get a whole different relationship than just having a business or online relationship.

LT: For sure. Now I want to, like, change the conversation a little bit and start talking about co-working places. Because I think these are definitely much bigger than the co-living. I feel like the co-living thing has only been around for the last maybe year or two; that’s really when it started to get bigger.

LM: Yeah. It’s not really taking off as far as the co-working has.

LT: Yeah, compared to the co-working. But, yeah, just the fact that these places are getting ridiculously big and you can pretty much find them in any country now that has a decent internet. Well, like you said, like, a few places don’t. But most of these places are designed for the fast internet because everyone is there working online. But the fact that, like, some of these places have, like, meeting rooms and video studios and soundproof rooms that you can, like, podcast in; you know, these places are designed to allow you to get the work done, which, you know, if you went to a café, probably not so much. And a café’s going to have a lot more distractions than a co-working space would.

LM: Right.

LT: But the fact that, like, there’s so many of them popping up in, you know, popular nomad hotspots like Chiang Mai, like Lisbon, like Bali, you know. And, you know, there’s more and more growing around the world. Like Spain, I would say probably about five years ago, probably didn’t have that many.

LM: Yeah.

LT: No, that’s just guessing; I could be completely wrong. But, you know, compared to now at least, yeah, there’s a hell of a lot more of them around. And, again, when I was doing some research for this, I found something pretty cool which I definitely need to, like, do a little bit more research and hopefully maybe even get, like, the owner onto this show is a place called NomadPass. Have you ever heard of this?

LM: That’s, like, the – you can go into a bunch of different co-working places, right?

LT: Yeah. So normally, like, a co-working space, you know, when you turn up you pay, like, a fee to use that one. Whereas the NomadPass, you know, you pay however much for the year for this pass and then you can use multiple different co-working spaces in multiple different countries and cities. So it’s like a membership to co-working spaces.

LM: Yeah.

LT: And I thought that was very interesting.

LM: That’s really cool. Because there are a few co-working places that have multiple international locations and your membership gives you access to them, but it’s called that NomadPass gives you access to things that aren’t necessarily in the same company.

LT: Yeah. And I just thought that was such, like, a unique idea that, you know – I think it’s definitely something that if the co-living thing isn’t quite for you, then definitely check out something like NomadPass or, you know, look into these sort of, like, co-working, like, memberships. You know, ones that have them in multiple countries so when you are deciding on the next place to go to, you know, you can see whether or not – well, you can choose your next place based on the co-working opportunities that are there or, you know, just find a random co-working space when you get there. But what has your experience been with – because I know you said you’ve been to, like, several different co-working places. What has your experience been with the differences between different co-working spaces in different countries?

LM: So some of them I’ve gone out of desperation because I wasn’t able to get good wi-fi anywhere else. So, I mean, it’s kind of like any place where you’re going to have a group of people; it really depends on the people. So, like, some of them you’ll find that everybody in that co-working space is a coach or some of them you’ll find that everybody in the co-working space isn’t a digital nomad; they just work remotely and are locals, which I quite like as well because it’s cool to meet local people too. I like when there’s a bit of a mix of travellers and locals just using the space; I feel like that gives it a nice balance.

LT: For sure, for sure.

LM: But I mainly do it – if it’s not for wi-fi reasons, I just do it because it’s nice to get out of the house. If you’re working from home all day, it’s just really nice to have somewhere else to go and work.

LT: Yeah. And, like, jumping back to the locals thing too. I think if you can meet more locals or as many locals as possible, especially if they are in these co-working spaces, you know, you’re definitely going to get a more true experience of what the local culture’s like. Because, like, when I was in Fiji, I became friends with a taxi driver. I ended up getting the same guy every single day and we ended up becoming really good friends, and he invited me to a traditional Indian wedding in Fiji.

LM: Oh wow.

LT: Which was ridiculous. You know, that’s not something that you could’ve, like, paid for or it’s not, like, an activity that you can book.

LM: Right. That’s not on Yelp.

LT: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I don’t want to say befriending locals; actually, you know, become friends with them because, you know, they’re going to show you, like, the real side of the country that you’re in rather than, like, the touristy side of things.

LM: Right. And if you’re staying in an Airbnb or a hotel and you’re working by yourself all day, you’re not going to meet anybody.

LT: Exactly.

LM: So, you know, even if you’re not necessarily meeting other digital nomads, you’re meeting other people. Like, you know, they don’t have to be the same as you; it’s just nice to meet other people. So I really like it for that. And it is also good to have reliable internet. Some places I’ve stayed don’t have reliable internet; they don’t have reliable electricity. So a lot of the co-working places in those places know that, so they take that extra step. So they’ll have, like, battery-operated routers to make sure that there’s internet if the electricity does go out; it’s just your responsibility to make sure your laptop is charged. When I was in Morocco, the king banned VOIP calls so the co-working had a VPN set up so we could use things like Skype, which we wouldn’t have been able to otherwise without getting our own VPN. So they just add those amenities that may be hard to find where you are, as well as the social aspect of course.

LT: Yeah. I think the social aspect is one of the more important reasons to check one of these out; either the co-living or the co-working.

LM: But it’s also, you know, if you have an important call or a podcast that you need to be interviewed on, you know, you don’t want to be running around because the café I usually work out of’s internet is not working.

LT: True.

LM: It’s nice to know that you have that place where you know you can go and there’s going to be wi-fi, for those times that you do really need it.

LT: Yep.

LM: And there are so many cool – especially in Canada, actually. I know you’re in Canada right now. There are some really cool ones in Montreal just in, like, really cool buildings or they have really interesting – there’s, like, a place called Anticafe where you pay by the hour and you can just have unlimited coffee and cookies.

LT: You’re singing my language now, girl.

LM: Yeah. And some of them have, like, just, you know, beer on top or whatever. Where I was in Las Palmas we had, like, €1 beers in the fridge. So that’s nice too.

LT: Damn. Yeah. I mean, here I’ve been shown – because I’m in Toronto right now. I’ve been shown a few really good cafes that a lot of, like, remote workers use that, you know, aren’t your Starbucks or your Tim Hortons; a few sort of, like, local cafes.

LM: Yeah.

LT: But, yeah, I’ve heard of a few co-working spaces but I haven’t checked any of them out yet. But, yeah, that’s definitely something that I should do, you know, like you said, just to meet other people like myself.

LM: Right. Exactly. And I feel like it’s – like, when you’re in a café and there are other people working, you don’t necessarily have the chance to interact with them; whereas in a co-working, I feel like it’s almost expected.

LT: It’s a given, yeah.

LM: Yeah. And not like – you know, don’t get up in their face when they’re trying to get their stuff done, but it’s just – you know, there is more opportunity to be social, whether that’s, like, when you’re up making a coffee or a tea or something or whatever.

LT: Cool. So have you got one more point that you’d like to talk about? Because I can see that our time is getting on.

LM: Let’s see. I think we covered most of what I was saying. I would just say, like, check – there are so many cool ones popping up at the moment. I know there are a few, like, pop-up co-livings that are really cool. So they just do it for a few months and you can come and stay with them. They basically rent out a really large Airbnb and have a bunch of people stay there and work. So I think that’s really cool. And there are a few government-subsidised ones that I’m seeing pop up as well. I know there’s an island in, I think, South Korea which is a government-subsidised co-working space which looks amazing, and it’s free.

LT: Wow.

LM: So there are just some really cool things. There’s a few in New York City. I know that there’s a – I forgot the name of the company, but they set up co-working places in restaurants that are closed during the day. So it’s a space that’s not being used and you can – they have a whole network of them throughout New York City. So you can work in any of them once you’re a member. Yeah. I’ve also even seen – you know the red telephone booths in London?

LT: Yep.

LM: Some of them are being turned into miniature workstations with, like, a desk and wi-fi and a printer.

LT: That’s pretty cool.

LM: Yeah. So there’s, like, some really cool things popping up. I feel like every time I look online there’s, like, more and more things. So you can find - - -

LT: So you’re definitely have to – yeah, when you’ve decided on where you want to go, definitely do a little bit of research on, like, the co-working spaces and the co-living, for sure. Especially if, you know, you’re going to, like, a popular place like – you know, say you went to America or – the South Korea one sounds very interesting. I’m going to have to look up some more information about that.

LM: Yeah, that one’s really cool.

LT: But, yeah, definitely, you know, research co-working spaces before you get somewhere, you know, so the day after you land or the day you land, you know, you go check this thing out and see whether or not it’s going to be a good fit for you, for sure.

LM: Yeah. And if you don’t find one that you like, there’s this really good website called Coffee & Power which will tell you cafes that have plugs and good wi-fi.

LT: Coffee & Power. I am writing that one down.

LM: That’s my saviour many, many times.


LM: Yep. Sweet. That will also be in the show notes. So, Leah, thank you very, very much for coming on. I really enjoyed this conversation; learnt a lot about the co-working and the co-living. Definitely something I need to try out, especially the co-living.

LM: Yeah. Maybe I’ll see you in Chiang Mai.

LT: Chiang Mai, yes. You said Thailand – well, before the call you mentioned Thailand is next on your list.

LM: Yeah, I think you should. I think you should hit up Chiang Mai.

LT: Well, that and Spain are top of my list at the moment. So I might just have to flip a coin, and if it ends up being Chiang Mai I will meet you there.

LM: Perfect.

LT: Cool. So, Leah, are you ready for your rapid-fire session?

LM: Yes.

LT: Perfect. So I’m not going to give you any time to think after each question – each answer, sorry. I’m just going to fire off the next question straight away.

LM: Okay.

LT: So question number one: what is your favourite country that you’ve been to so far?

LM: Oh god, I hate this question.

LT: First country that comes to your head.

LM: Since last year, I’ll say Morocco.

LT: Morocco. Excellent. And what is the last YouTube video or movie that you’ve watched?

LM: The last YouTube video was Billy Connolly talking about potatoes of the night.

LT: Love that man. The weirdest thing you’ve eaten?

LM: There have been many. Crocodile.

LT: That’s not weird.

LM: Or manta ray.

LT: That one’s a bit weirder. What is your favourite drinking game?

LM: I’m Australian, so we don’t really play drinking games; we just drink.

LT: But you’ve been travelling a lot, so you must have a drinking game.

LM: It’s Would I Lie To You. That’s a good drinking game; you have to guess the lie.

LT: Okay. I was about to say, I have no idea what that one is. If you could meet one person, living or dead, who would it be?

LM: These are tough, man. I don’t know. Let’s say - - -

LT: These are supposed to be rapid-fire.

LM: I know. These are hard.

LT: Just the first person that comes to your head. First person.

LM: The first person that came to my head was Marie Curie and I don’t know why.

LT: I don’t need a reason why. What is the one book that you would recommend everyone should read?

LM: Still Life with Woodpecker by Tom Robbins.

LT: What is your go-to song when you need to get in the mood to get shit done?

LM: Work Bitch.

LT: What is your favourite swearword you’ve learnt in another language?

LM: Douche. Which is still English, but it’s American English.

LT: I would count that as a foreign language, being English myself.

LM: Yeah.

LT: What is your favourite podcast, apart from this one?

LM: I like Adults Read Things They Wrote As Children.

LT: And give me your best travel story that you have in under five minutes.

LM: Okay. So I was saying before our call, actually, all of my best stories are, like, bad things at the time but later on it’s hilarious. So the one that came to mind was when I was in Guatemala and we were getting a 14-hour bus from the top of the country to the bottom. And we paid extra to sit in the, like, fancy part of the bus where there were movies and stuff. So about half an hour into the trip they put the movie on, but there was some sort of technical difficulty so it just played the 20th Century Fox song over and over for about an hour. And it never got to the end of it. So it would just be like da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and it was so loud. I had noise-reducing headphones on and I could still hear it, and I think everybody else in our section must have taken sleeping pills or something because me and my friends were, like, the only people still awake that were listening to this. And, like, this is how they actually torture people. And this is going to be a 14-hour bus trip. And we got to a point – like, we started laughing for a while, then we got really upset for a while. We were, like, trying to, like, bang on the bus driver’s door so we could talk to him because we couldn’t actually get to the driver. And then we just got to a point where we’re like, “This is just our life now. This is going to be our life for the next 14 hours.” But, yeah, about an hour in I don’t know what happened but it somehow stopped.

LT: So now whenever you watch a movie, you hear that; you get, like, a nervous tick.

LM: Yeah, it’s like PTSD any time I watch a Fox film. Like, oh no, no.

LT: I love that story, just because at the time, like you said, it was horrible but afterwards you can laugh about it.

LM: And I don’t speak Spanish, so I was trying to, like, explain this to someone, anyone, and I can’t.

LT: Well, that is a fantastic story. Thank you very much for sharing that, Leah.

LM: Thanks for having me, Luke.

LT: You are more than welcome. Where can people find you, if they wanted to reach out to you?

LM: Yeah. They can find me through my website. So All of my contact info is there. If you want to shoot me an email, ask me questions; feel free. Or buy some shampoo.

LT: Perfect. Yes. By the time this episode goes live, hopefully you’ll have your shampoo up, ready to sell.

LM: Yes, hopefully. That’s the plan.

LT: Fantastic. I’ll put all of that in the show notes for you guys. So, Leah, thank you again very much for coming on to the show. And right now I want to give you a virtual fist bump.

LM: Yes.

LT: And I will see you soon hopefully.

LM: Yep. Hope so. Thanks, Luke.

LT: Take care. Bye-bye.

LM: Bye.



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