In today’s episode, I have Amanda Baye on the show to discuss our reasons for travel.
Amanda has been an avid traveler for 23+ years and counting — living in several countries and bouncing around continents — learning the art of backpacking on the fly (and from a multitude of mistakes). While she does hold down a regular job, travel is her addiction, passion and her continual pursuit. As she explains, there is simply nothing to compare the feeling of strapping on a backpack and heading out on a new journey to simply “go further.”
I could have chatted with Amanda for HOURS! We even had to split up our conversation into two parts because we talked for so long! So this is just part 1 of our chat… The next part will be the following episode.
Enjoy dudes and dudettes!
IN THIS EPISODE WE COVER:
- My very first stint of traveling… Thailand, Australia and Fiji… How I fell into scuba diving.
- Why travel? What are the benefits?
- Using working holiday visas to extend your travels
LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Want to reach out to Amanda? Here’s the deets:
LT: So, Amanda, how are you doing?
AB: I’m good, Luke. How are you doing?
LT: I am freezing my ass off here in Toronto right now. It sucks.
AB: I’m sweating my ass off here in Mexico right now. Want to switch?
LT: I’m so jealous.
AB: Want to switch?
LT: I’m very happy to switch.
LT: I know you, like, left here to get away from the cold, didn’t you?
AB: Yeah, I did. I did. So I’d be very hesitant in switching, so – you know what, I’ve got a second bedroom; if you want to come down, you’re more than welcome.
LT: I’ll take it.
AB: There you go. Done.
LT: Cool. So I did give you a bit of an introduction in the intro to the show. So before we jump into our topic for today, would you like to let all the dudes and dudettes know who you are; where you’re from – which I kind of gave away a second ago – and then sort of, like, a brief history of your travel, because I know you’ve done a lot; and sort of, like, what you’re up to right now.
AB: Well, okay, so here I am.
LT: A lot of things.
AB: My name is Amanda Baye. I am originally from a very small town in Ontario, Canada, called Orillia – that’s where I grew up – relocated to Vancouver for university, and then been around the world on and off for the past 20-something years; who’s counting. I don’t want to age myself here. What else, what else, what else. Yeah, bounced around, bounced around a lot of places. I’ve touched a quite a few of the continents and, you know what, there’s still so much more to discover. I find myself right now in Mexico. I have relocated here after being five years in the corporate world and kind of enchained and imprisoned to my desk and realise, you know what, not for me. So here I am. I’m enjoying the beach; I’m enjoying the weather; I’m enjoying a laidback lifestyle; and it’s exactly what the doctor ordered.
LT: How long have you been down there for now?
AB: I’m going on three years now.
LT: Oh wow.
AB: So actually it’ll be three years in May.
LT: That’s so cool.
AB: Yeah. It’s – have you been to Mexico?
LT: I haven’t, but I have heard, like mixed things about Playa del Carmen, though.
AB: Oh. Please, do tell.
LT: Well, I never, like, bothered asking specific details from these people, but they said it’s not quite as nice as it’s made out to be by people. So – but clearly they’ve got a completely different opinion to you, if you’ve been down there for three years now.
AB: You know what, if you’ve got money, Playa del Carmen is fantastic. If you’re on a Mexican salary, it’s okay. It’s okay. There’s a lot of really beautiful things around the area in the state here, in Quintana Roo, and, no, I don’t work for the tours bureau. So I’m not getting cuts on this. But, no, honestly, there’s some really fabulous places and wonderful things. But, yeah, you know what, Playa del Carmen is a city and I think any city that people go to, you know, you have your loves and your hates.
LT: For sure. Well, I’ll definitely be picking your brains when it’s my time to come down there.
LT: So, like you said at the beginning, you’ve done a lot of travelling yourself. I’ve done about four years now myself. So I’d love to – well, the reason why I bought you on for this episode to co-host with me is just to talk about, like, travelling in general. Obviously you have a completely, like, different experience to me, obviously, like, travelling before you had, like, the internet to really sort of, like, stalk the destination that you’re going to. So we’ve got completely different experiences so, yeah, I thought it’d be great to have you on just to talk about travel in general; sort of, like, how it’s sort of, like, changed us as people, our opinions on, like, the world and life in general; and just also talk about how someone who, like, maybe hasn’t thought about travelling as much, which probably is no one listening to this show, but, you know, just talk about how sort of, like, travelling and, like, different ways that you can travel and still, like, enjoy life as much as possible.
AB: I mean, here’s a question for you, Luke. It’s, like, you’ve said you’ve been travelling for four years.
AB: What was your first destination?
LT: My first, like, proper travelling trip was to Thailand. I spent one month there before I ended up in Australia.
AB: Okay. So answer me this: how did you plan your trip to get to Thailand?
LT: Well, that’s a funny story, actually. So a friend of mine in – so I used to work in a factory for a little bit before I hit the road. And travelling was something that I’ve been wanting to do probably since I was, like, 17, 18. That’s sort of, like, the first time I can remember, like, seriously, like, travelling, like, for a long period of time, not just, like, a one- or two-week holiday like most people do in the UK. So someone that I used to work with, she went to China for three months and had an amazing time; came back with loads of cool stories about China and, like, the stuff that she got up to while she was there; loads of cool pictures of, like, the terracotta warriors and, like, these funky staircases on sides of cliffs and stuff. So she told me, like, how she sort of, like, went about planning that trip and it ended up being, like, an agency that – they’re all around the world, actually. I’ve found – there’s some in, like, New Zealand; I think there’s some in the States; maybe Canada. But in the UK, there’s definitely some. It was called STA Travel.
AB: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
LT: Yeah. So they, like, do a lot of sort of, like – sort of, like, the backpacking trips and you can do, like, group excursions but you don’t know anybody on the trip until you get there. But you’re with, like, the same group of people.
LT: So I went in there just to, like, ask about sort of, like, what options that I had available to me. Like, travelling was something that I wanted to do but I had no idea where I wanted to go, when I was going to go, or anything, really. I just went in there completely, like, open-minded. Anyway, left probably about an hour and a half, two hours later with – well, whilst I was there, filled out an application for a working holiday visa for Australia.
LT: And then I probably went back about two weeks later after, and then I did a little bit of research online on, like, Thailand because that was something that I heard a lot of people talk about. And whilst I was there, I found, like, a guided tour group. It was, like – I think it was three weeks but I ended up being there for 27 days.
LT: And, yeah, so I found this tour group. They had some good start and finishing dates on when I was roughly planning on leaving. So, yeah, I went back to the travel agency two weeks later and bought a one-way ticket that stopped over in Thailand for 27 days. Actually, I think it was 28 in the end. And then it basically dropped me off in Cairns. And I also paid for a package that included the SIN number or tax number, a bank account, and the first two nights’ accommodation. And then that was it.
AB: Awesome. Awesome.
LT: So in the space of, like, two weeks I went from nothing to having a one-way ticket to Australia with, like, a group guided tour thing in Thailand, which was absolutely insane, by the way. I turned into an alcoholic whilst I was there. And then – yeah.
AB: Thailand will do that to you, right.
LT: Oh man. The full moon party was so much fun. So much fun. And then, yeah, got to Cairns, two days in this hostel booked, and then, yeah, just went from there, really.
AB: You know, I think for me, out of all of the experience I – okay. So here’s something. When I was back in Vancouver in between doing my five years in the corporate world, I was going insane. And one of the things that helped me keep my sanity, yes, my three-week, four-week holidays, and I was able to escape and, you know – but still it was like, for me to grow roots was a challenge. It was – and stay in a place that was native to me. So what I ended up doing to keep my sanity was teaching a course called Backpacking A to Z through trade school. I’m not sure – I know they’re all over the world, but basically you – if somebody has something to present, you do that and then they – the attendees basically trade a skill or a service. So, for example, a bartender brought me – he came and attended my class and brought me a bottle of wine. Fantastic. I had, you know, a photographer come and do headshots for me. So basically I traded my knowledge for either their knowledge, skills, or service.
The point being is one of the things that I always say when – and I’ve taught that course twice – was you got to leave space, you know. Get yourself settled for the first couple of nights and, you know, just let it go. You don’t need to plan everything, you know. At 9 o’clock – look, you don’t need to have a set itinerary. That’s my key point is, like, get yourself sorted. And that’s a huge recommendation for any country that anyone goes to is have, you know, a couple of nights just you’ve got a bed to sleep in, you got your head rested; you know, get yourself oriented and then figure out after that. Because by having that open space, you just – things will unfold organically and naturally. I mean – and by the sounds of it, what happened to you after your couple of nights in Cairns?
LT: So I paid for a trip out to the Great Barrier Reef and whilst I was there they offered scuba diving. And whilst I was in Thailand, I did my open water course which is, like, your first course that you do if you want to become a certified scuba diver.
LT: And whilst I was on the boat, they offered scuba diving. And I ended up being the only certified diver. So I ended up having the dive guide all to myself; it was just the two of us. We did two dives on the boat.
LT: And on the way back, she was telling me that she was doing an internship. So she wasn’t getting paid to work on the boat, but she was getting all of her diving certifications in return instead. And I thought that was amazing; it was something that I really wanted to do. Because I loved the diving that I did in Thailand; I loved the two dives that we did in Cairns. So when we got back, I started looking around in Cairns on, like, places that would do internships. Turns out that they didn’t, but two people in the hostel that I stayed in, they wanted to travel down to Brisbane. The guy wanted to go down there to look for some farm work because if you did three months farm work, you can then apply for a second one-year visa.
LT: And then there was a Dutch girl that had to get to Brisbane because she was flying back home to Holland. So the three of us decided to travel down, and we did something that I don’t like and you sort of, like, mentioned it already is, like, not planning too much in advance. I definitely like to see where the wind takes me.
LT: Which is one reason why – actually, that wasn’t the reason why; it was something that I’m glad I did was only have those two nights booked when I first got to Australia, which is definitely the way I prefer to travel now. I would probably book, like, one week’s accommodation max and then decide what I wanted to do from there, especially if you’re going somewhere that you know you want to stay in that country for a while. Say, like, you plan to go to Thailand for three months. You know, you wanted to go to Chiang Mai and you wanted to check out the digital nomad lifestyle and scene there. Book, like, a week max in, like, a hotel or a hostel or a guesthouse or whatever, and then find accommodation once you’re there because you’ll find much better – not only, like, a better rate but you’ll be able to talk to other people there and, like, check places out rather than just doing it online. So that’s definitely a good reason, and I completely agree with you of not planning too much in advance.
AB: Yeah. No. And I think you can agree with me on this; it’s, like, there’s just a beautiful serendipity about travel. Everything is stripped away - - -
AB: - - - where it’s just you become a person where it’s, like, you’re just meeting your basic needs. Where it’s, like, do I have food; do I have shelter; do I – okay, what’s the plan for today? And everything is open to you, and opportunities present themselves magically. It’s very bizarre.
LT: Well, this is the thing. It’s, like, so I was looking for a scuba diving internship in Cairns. So when these two decided that they wanted to travel down to Brisbane, I thought, cool, I’ll travel down and look for farm work as well to get my second year visa. So we planned, like, everything on the way down because this girl had to be in Brisbane by a certain time. So we planned all these activities and stops along the way. And then once we got to – well, when we got to Airlie Beach or the Whitsunday Islands, we did a three-day two-night, like, liveaboard boat that went around the islands. And they did, like, loads of snorkelling; loads of checking out, like, the cool remote islands and, like, checking some of the beaches. They also did scuba diving on that boat. And I was talking to the guy there and I said, oh yeah, I had the idea of doing an internship up in Cairns but I couldn’t find anything so now I’m looking for, like, some farm work when we get to Brisbane. Well, he’s the one that told me that there is a company in town that do scuba diving internships.
So I went to the company or the boat company that he told me about that do it; they said it was something that they subcontract out to this other company. The lady then phoned them to see if they were in the office, which was, like, a 10-minute walk away. So I went down there and probably spent half an hour talking to the two owners and then they said, yeah, if you want to come work for us, then just let us know. Because I had, like, two weeks more of stuff booked to do on the way down to Brisbane. But we got to Fraser Island two weeks later, turned around, came back up to Airlie Beach and started my scuba diving internship. And sort of, like, everything changed from there.
AB: Awesome. So you’re now, what, a certified instructor, dive master?
LT: Yeah. I’m a stress and rescue instructor at SSI. So it’s, like, the third instructor level.
AB: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
AB: Very cool. Very, very cool.
LT: And that led me to Fiji as well. So, like, all the cool shit that I’ve done, like, since then wouldn’t have happened if I had, like, planned everything from the very beginning.
AB: Exactly. Exactly. And that’s the thing. By leaving space, by leaving things open, serendipitously, things work out. It’s just – for me, that’s the magic of travel. That’s the magic of being on the road. That’s just – it’s brilliant. It’s absolute brilliance.
LT: Yeah. And so if I did book – like, if I did plan more than two days in front or two days ahead than what I had planned to do in Cairns already, then, yeah, every, like, thing that I did after that may or may not have happened. Probably not, because I might not have stayed in that hostel if I had decided to book, say, two months’ accommodation in Cairns instead of the two days.
AB: Right. And you never know. You never know, right. It’s, like, had you booked a week, maybe you would’ve felt obliged, right. Like, oh no, I’ve booked a week; I should stick it out. But, you know, because you didn’t, you weren’t locked into anything and you had that flexibility to go and do what you wanted and needed to do.
LT: Yeah. Exactly. And like you said, everything just falls into place.
AB: It does. It does. And like I said, for me, that’s the beautiful thing. That’s the beautiful part of travelling.
AB: For sure.
LT: So, like, what’s, like, something that’s important to you that, like, is the reason why you like to travel?
AB: You know what, I would have to say, like, some of my best travel memories from, you know, 20 plus years are really – it’s just not the places, but it’s the people and the connections that I have made along the way. So, you know, whether that is just the random meetings of strangers or the street vendors or people in the hostel, people you meet in the street, people that you start travelling with and you start becoming friends and develop this really intimate relationship – and by intimate I don’t mean sex, but you start to know each other at a deeper soul level, right. But, of course, yes, you have lovers along the way. But it’s the people. It’s the people that you meet along the way that, for me, that’s one of the important things, as well as the growth and the challenges that you experience. You know, you can have so many different things where it’s, like, you’re sitting there going, “I hate this country. I hate this place.” You know, whether you’ve just been robbed or whatever misfortune comes your way and you can feel really down on your luck and really, you know, sad and frustrated and angry. But at the same time, it’s, like, hang on, time out. Yeah, it matters to me now, but in five years it probably won’t matter. And you sit there and reflect on it, and it’s, like, those are the moments that kick you in the ass and make you strong.
LT: Yeah. And I think - - -
AB: So for me - - -
LT: Sorry, go ahead.
AB: No, you go ahead.
LT: I just want to say that, like, this is one of the points that we sort of wanted to talk about was, like, long- and short-term travel. And I personally prefer to go on the longer term side because, you know, you’ve got more chances and more opportunities to, like, meet local people and, like, experience, like, the local cultures which you wouldn’t get to experience if you only stayed there for a couple days or a couple weeks. And like you said, it’s the same for me. It’s, like, the people that I meet in these places, especially, like, local people – like, my time in Fiji, like, would not have been remotely as good as it was if it wasn’t for the Fijian family that I stayed with at the resort that I was, like, working in as a scuba diving instructor. I made such good connections with that family. They really made my time in Fiji, like, so much better compared to if, like, I just, like, decided to go there for two weeks and just do the touristy thing of just, like, island hopping.
AB: No, you’re absolutely right. I think I prefer longer term travel, obviously; three years in Mexico; two years in Japan; a year in Columbia, right. So, for me, that’s it. It’s, like, when you can immerse yourself and grow some of the roots, you know, not full-fledged roots because that’s kind of scary. But, you know, you do develop relationships; you do get connected within a community; and you get a deeper understanding of the culture. But at the same time, you know, there are people there that have to do the quickies, you know. I was that person for five years where, to retain any sense of my sanity, I needed to get away for two weeks here or two weeks there or, heck, you know, be all-inclusive. It’s, like, just – it’s not my backpack style of travel where I’m gone for two years. But, you know, it’s going to appeal to everyone. But, yeah, I hear you. I hear you when you say the longer term and the connections and the people; it definitely is where I lean towards for sure.
LT: Yeah. I mean, it’s going to differ for everybody. You know, some people are going to prefer, like, the quickie method of, like, you just spend, like, one or two days in places. I mean, even though, like I said at the beginning, I spent a month in Thailand, I think I spent a maximum of four days in any single place.
LT: So I sort of, like, did, like, the quickie thing. Yes, it was in the same country; it wasn’t, like, darting around countries sort of like you would do if you were doing, like, a five-week backpacking trip around Europe. But still, you know, like you said, not necessarily, like, making roots in places but, you know, you’re not really getting to see, like, the true side of a place; you’re just seeing the surface version that’s all touristy, if you are in a touristy destination, which, again, was the difference in my experience compared to a lot of other people’s when they go to Fiji.
LT: Because, like, I got invited to – because, like, there’s a big sort of, like, Indian culture there too.
LT: So you’ve got, like, the local Fijians and, like, Indians; they’re the two biggest cultures there. So I became really good friends with an Indian taxi driver that I had when I spent two months on the main island. Well, where I was living and where I was working was, like, a 25-minute drive. And I was there for two months. So the first month I had a car, and then the second month it was repossessed by the people that the company I was working for was renting it from. And then I had to get a taxi for that next month. And I ended up getting the same taxi driver every day to and from.
AB: That’s awesome. That is so awesome.
LT: It was so cool because we had such a good connection that he invited me to a wedding, which obviously not everybody – well, probably barely anybody would get invited to someone’s wedding after being there for a few days. But, like, twice a day for like an hour every day for an entire month, we would sit next to each other and have conversations. And that’s the sort of things that I love about travelling and that’s sort of, like, what really gets me going and excited to check out a new place. You know, this is the reason why sort of, like, Thailand is still on my list of places to go because, you know, I did that, like, quickie style travel. I have, like, Spain on my list; I have Argentina on my list; I have Portugal on my list. I still have lots of places in England on my list too because a lot of people probably find that people who want to go visit your country that aren’t from there, they all seem shocked if you say, like, yeah, I’ve never really travelled around my country but you’ll travel 3000 miles away to then explore another country.
AB: You know what, it’s exactly the same. It’s, like, okay, yeah, I’ve driven across Canada a couple of times. But I haven’t truly, truly explored east of Ontario, east of Toronto. And it’s sad, it’s horrifying. So I hear where you’re coming from on that point. It’s, like, there’s still so many parts in my country that I want to travel, which is cool. That’s a great opportunity for people who, you know, maybe getting into travel is really – maybe there’s some fear or there’s some hesitancy. But why not start travelling in your own country. What a great way to get the kicks out.
LT: Yeah, definitely. If you do have, like, itchy feet but you can’t afford to go – you know, move to another country for a while, then, yeah, definitely just see what’s in your back garden. You know, go explore the country that you’re in because you’re probably going to be one of very few people from there that do that. You could go and meet other people from, say, Canada – like, go to Australia, for example, and talk to other Canadians and, you know, barely any of them would’ve, like, travelled around Canada but they would’ve travelled around Australia. So you could probably be one of very few people from your own country that explored your own country.
AB: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Love it.
LT: Cool. So I want to bring up another point that you’ve – a talking point that you wrote down that you wanted to cover and that was, like, for digital nomads who, like, take a business with them but are under the age of 30: don’t limit yourself because you don’t have a business. Like, other options are available, including, like, working holiday visas which is what I’ve been making the most of at the moment because I’m only 28 years old. So when I went to Australia, that was a working holiday visa. I had one year there. And here in Canada I’m on a working holiday visa that’s for two years. And, you know, that’s – not only is that a great way to go travelling if, you know, you don’t have a business yet or, like, your business isn’t making you enough money to fund your travelling yet, you know, you can get jobs along the way if you have a working holiday visa.
AB: You know what, Luke, I agree with you. Basically, when I went to Australia, I was on a work holiday visa as well for one year. I went to the UK; I also had a work holiday visa for one year. As well as Japan; a work holiday visa for one year. The irony is I never ended up using my UK visa and, again, one of those serendipitous moments where I was in a youth hostel in the UK and there was an Italian woman who was actually – sorry, she was an Australian woman who was working in Italy and she was flying back to – sorry, can you hear my dog barking in the background?
LT: Yep. I can definitely tell you’re in Mexico. Everybody that I’ve spoken to in Mexico right now always have dogs barking in the background.
AB: No, he’s actually my dog. He’s not a Mexican roof dog. He’s my dog. He belongs to me. But, yeah. No, so anyway, I apologise for the dog; he’s very diligent at his job of scaring away strangers. But, no, in the UK what had happened is at that youth hostel I met an Australian woman who was on her way back to Australia because her grandmother was really ill. But she had just finished working with this Italian family, and she was a nanny. And the family was actually really sad to see her go and they were desperate to find another nanny. And she was the one who gave me information. She’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it’s with this agency; go contact them; this is the name of the family. So the next day I got lost on the subway – the tube. Excuse me; the tube.
LT: The tube.
AB: And found this agency, and basically two days later I was on a flight to Milan and I was a nanny, right. And I never returned. I never returned to the UK because adventures took me elsewhere. And, again, it was just those beautiful moments of keeping things open and letting opportunities, you know, come and find you. And it sat right with me. It was just, like, yeah, this feels good and I took it. So, yeah, kind of scrapped my one-year work holiday visa in the UK. But one of the things too, it’s, like, the work holiday visa that I had in Japan was fabulous. And something else to consider is what I call suitcase professions. You know, coming from old school travel where, when I started travelling, internet didn’t exist. There was no Google. There was no TripAdvisor. The internet wasn’t there. Email did not exist. How did I stay in touch? Guess what: postcards; transatlantic phone calls. You know.
And, seriously, there’s a point in time where it’s, like, do I call my parents and let them know I’m okay or do I pay for another night at this youth hostel. Like, those were the decisions, right. But, no, I always tried to call my folks, just to let them know at that point in time that I was okay. Because you just can’t post an image going, hey, here I am, you know, I’m cool; I’m all good; I’m seeing this monument or this statue today. But, no, the suitcase profession: teaching English. It was fabulous. That was something that allowed me to go to Columbia, to go to Japan, to go to Korea. And, again, you can stay, you know, depending on the schools or the contracts or the work holiday visas you have.
So definitely – I would recommend, you know, for people who haven’t really started their digital nomad business but are definitely interested in travelling and definitely interested in sustaining their travel and making money on the road, work holiday visas are definitely the place. I mean, Australia, gosh, I worked as a waitress; I worked on a farm for a bit; I worked in a bar; I worked in a coffee shop; I served chicken. You know, it was just – whatever it was to sustain you as you’re living, but also put a little bit aside so you can continue on and keep – you know, my mantra: just go further. Keep going further.
LT: Yeah. I mean, like, going back to you scrapping, like, your UK visa. Like, when I was in Australia – so I had a – it’s not quite the same, but I had, like, 12 months on my visa and the plan was to do farm work so I could get a second year. But when I started doing the scuba diving stuff, I was then offered, like – because the instructor course wasn’t part of, like, the original – what they offered.
LT: Yeah. It wasn’t part of the internship; it was something that, you know, if they thought you would make a good instructor, they’d offer it to you towards the end. And obviously they thought I was good enough and thought I’d make a good instructor, so I did. I did the course, did the advanced course, did the stress and rescue course. And then with – I think it was, like, with three months left on my visa still, they asked me if I was interested in going to Fiji for six months. Now, Fiji was on my list of places to check out - - -
LT: - - - maybe for just, like, a week or two. But, you know, because they offered me, like, a six-month visa for Fiji working as a scuba diving instructor on a remote little island in the middle of nowhere, I was like - - -
AB: Done. Hello.
LT: - - - yeah. Like, don’t need to think twice about that one. And then, yeah, two weeks later after saying yes I was gone.
LT: I was there.
AB: Love it.
LT: So I gave up the chance of, like, getting my second year visa for Australia for Fiji. And I tell you what, Fiji has definitely been the highlight of all my travel so far.
AB: Absolutely. I mean, here’s - - -
LT: It’s absolutely - - -
AB: Here’s something that’s going to make you cringe, because I know you – snowboard or ski?
AB: Okay. So you probably know that getting a job at Whistler is pretty tough.
AB: I had a job offer as a ski instructor to teach kids, right, their kids camp, or to go to Japan and teach English. And, honestly, it was that same thing; it’s, like, yeah. No. You know, I can always come back to this mountain. I can always get that job. Something just drew me, called me. It’s, like, I got to go to Japan. I got to go to Japan. It’s, like, I love sushi; I got to go to Japan.
LT: That’s a good reason to go. Sushi. So we’re actually getting on, like, timewise. Are you cool to continue and maybe break this up into a second episode?
AB: We could do that, yeah.
LT: Sweet. So we’ll end it right here and we will go on to part two.
AB: Part two.
LT: So everybody listening, you will be able to hear the rest of this conversation in the next episode. So we will see you over there. Bye-bye.
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