TMD 004 : Starting Your Digital Nomad Journey and “Losing Your Phone in Mexico” with Madison Black

Podcast Transcript: Madison Black

LT: So, Madison Black, thank you very much for coming onto the show. It is good to finally talk to you, almost face to face.

MB: Almost. Close.

LT: Almost. Close enough.

MB: Thank you for having me.

LT: For digital nomads, this is pretty much face to face.

MB: Absolutely. It’s pretty much – and we should be having a glass of wine or something like that.

LT: That is actually the one thing I am missing right now. All I’ve got is some nice, high quality H2O which doesn’t quite hit the spot.

MB: Me too. Chink-chink.

LT: Perfect. So I gave you a little bit of an introduction in the intro, but if you would like to give us a little bit of an introduction yourself, tell us a bit about yourself, how you became a digital nomad and where you are now, with some nice banging that’s going on in the background.

MB: Yes. I apologise. So I am in Mexico, which is why it is so loud, because nothing in Mexico is quiet. We’ve pretty much not had peace for the almost three months that we’ve been here now. We’re constructing our rooftop terrace, so we’re hoping that the banging is all going to be worth it in a couple of weeks.

LT: Fingers crossed.

MB: Fingers crossed. So I’m – if you haven’t figured out from my accent – an Aussie who moved here three months ago in a bit of a decade-late change of life that I’d been wanting to do for, yeah, like I said, a decade. And, yeah, finally took the leap and, yeah, now I’m here with my fiancé, Rory, and together we’re building our online health business, the Slow Health Movement.

LT: Very nice, very nice. So whereabouts are you from in Australia originally?

MB: So I’ve been everywhere, man. I started in Queensland – I’m a Queenslander through and through, but I’ve lived all over Australia in various roles in the last 10 years. So most recently from Melbourne.

LT: Okay. Yeah. Because I lived in Airlie Beach for quite a while, so I was a Queensland boy myself.

MB: Nice. Woo. Yeah, I was living in Mackay for a short time and I used to (01:55)

LT: They’re very, very, very close. Very close.

MB: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Nice.

LT: So you’re a Maroons supporter?

MB: Naturally. I mean, to be honest, I’m not actually a sports person at all except for State of Origin, which anyone outside of Queensland and New South Wales will have no idea what that is.

LT: No. And won’t even care either.

MB: No, no. But, yeah, Maroons, obviously. I mean, we’ve done so well the last decade.

LT: Okay. We’re going to get on well, then. So the topic that we’ve decided that we’re going to talk about is all about taking the leap and starting your digital nomad journey. So we have both been – well, I’ve been a digital nomad for a little while now and you fairly new digital nomad. And so - - -

MB: Very green.

LT: Very green. So I thought this would be a great topic that we could talk about for anybody else that hasn’t quite taken the leap just yet but are sort of on the fence and might have some hesitation at taking that leap. So we’ve both taken some notes and I would love it if you would get us started.

MB: Absolutely. So I think the biggest thing for me when I was, I suppose, making the decision was just making the decision to finally – like I said, it took me 10 years to finally commit to doing the overseas thing, and it just so happened that the digital nomad thing was what I was going to do while I was overseas. So I suppose I wanted to kind of break down what are some of the reasons that people might hold themselves back from ultimately making this decision and putting in the time and planning to get overseas and work as a digital nomad.

LT: Awesome. So what’s the very, very first thing on your notes that you’ve taken?

MB: Well, I know for me it was always to do with money. It was going to cost me a lot of money in terms of not just, you know, purchasing the ticket and not just – you know, not having a job. But it was kind of everything that you lost by not having that security of a job or a house or furniture, and you had to kind of give up on a lot of ideals that I’d otherwise been kind of – had them rammed down my throat: “You’re supposed to have a house,” and, “You’re supposed to buy nice furniture,” and, you know, all of that kind of stuff that your parents, who are security junkies, try to encourage you to have.

LT: I like that word, “security junkies”.

MB: Yeah.

LT: I remember when I first started planning my first trip, which was actually to Australia as well. I saved up – I think it was around about $10,000, I think it was, in the end, and I remember one friend turned around and said, “Yeah, you can, like, put a deposit on a house for that money.” And I was like, “Yeah, but travelling sounds like more fun.”

MB: Absolutely.

LT: Yeah. So I definitely get that. A lot of people thought I wasn’t making the sensible option by deciding just to go travel, but it has definitely paid off in the long run. So I definitely, definitely understand that one.

MB: Yeah.

LT: So one of the things I wanted to talk about as well was when moving overseas is a lot of the people, they don’t really think about the working holiday visas. That’s something that I, like, made the most of when I first went to Australia, and it’s something that I’ve made the most of now here in Canada as well. So the reason why I want people to consider that – especially if you’re under the age of 30 years old, which is normally the upper age limit for most working holiday visas – although I have heard – I haven’t checked to see if this is true, but I have heard that Australia has upped theirs to 35 years now. So up to 35.

MB: Yeah, I heard that recently too.

LT: Yeah. Okay.

MB: Yeah.

LT: But it’s definitely something we need to check, and all you guys listening, if you’re interested in Australia, then definitely check that out. But the reason why I want people to consider working holiday visas is because if your business starts to slow down a little bit or, like you said, you know, money does become a bit of an issue or, you know, you start to worry about things like that, then you can go and get a part-time job, you know, just to help pay the bills whilst you’re doing it. What do you think about that?

MB: Absolutely. And I know that this is something that even in just the three months that Rory and I have been in Mexico, we’ve already started to feel the pinch of – our business just isn’t growing quick enough to support us financially, and we are only here on kind of tourist visas. They’ve got 180 days you can jump in and once they’re up, you jump out and jump back in again. Like, it’s all pretty easy in Mexico. But, yeah, pretty quickly I kind of was feeling too insecure in terms of my money and I wanted to get some form of income, just to, you know, take the scarcity away.

And we don’t have that option in terms of working holiday visas, so if you have that option – and, you know, like Luke said, when you’re under 30, I think you’re crazy if you don’t look into it. I know Canada is definitely very high on our list as the next destination for that very purpose. But I know, for us, what we did and as an alternative is looking for virtual assistance work and kind of leveraging our skills we’ve built in the last eight or nine years in the corporate world. And, you know, fortunately (07:17) and, you know, quite good (07:19) and Rory is still on the search. He’s only kind of more recently looking. But I think, yeah, if you’re open to it, there’s quite a few options out there to get some form of employment or (07:31).

LT: Then hopefully that will help you out. See, ‘cause another thing that I was – well, another reason why you should also consider doing work in holiday visas as well is that they’re normally a lot longer than what a tourist visa would be. So the visa that I had for Australia, that was for 12 months. And the one I’ve got here for Canada is for 24 months. So if you did want to check out a destination for a lot longer as well, then a working holiday visa is another reason why you should check those out too.

MB: Absolutely. I think that there’s something to be said – you know, especially when you say about long-term – and, you know, I think you have set yourself up, you know, in an apartment and, you know, we’ve kind of done the same thing. And usually, you know, being a digital nomad – the more traditional style of digital nomad is to kind of do a month here, a month there, and kind of travel around far more nomadically. It’s something that Rory and I are kind of discussing of maybe doing next year and kind of going into a co-living, co-working kind of situation. But I think that having that long-term, like you said, is a real great opportunity to really understand the culture more and get more ingrained in what goes on in the place that you’re living. Would you agree with that?

LT: For sure. I mean – because there’s definitely two different types of travelling, you know; you’ve got your long-term travelling, then you’ve got your, like, short-term travel. So if long-term travel, which basically means if you want to spend, you know – I would consider long-term travelling you want to spend longer than, like, a month in a place, rather than just, like, a week or two. Then, yeah, definitely consider, you know, these sorts of visas because you can, you know – like you said, you know, you can really dive into a culture a lot more the longer you stay somewhere than you would if you were just there for, like, a week. So you would – well, you’re more likely just to see the touristy thing if you’re only there for a week or two, rather than, yeah, diving knee-deep into the culture and, like, really experiencing a place properly.

MB: Yep. Totally agree.

LT: Awesome. So what have you got next on your list?

MB: So I’ve got something that really came up massively for us that we had to kind of wade through was dealing with the (09:43) for our family and friends (09:46). But as I said, we had our family, who are kind of security junkies, and very much a lot of our friends were in the same boat, who just didn’t get – I mean, first and foremost we’re entrepreneurs, which most everyday people don’t get anyway.

LT: That’s true.

MB: But then – yeah. But then to layer on top of that this crazy idea that we’re going to up our entire lives and sell everything we own and move to Mexico where people get pulled over on the side of the road and murdered, like, it was just this – it was just fear, fear, fear, and doubt, and “you won’t make any money” and “your business isn’t ready” and just – you know, just so many negative things flying our way. It really took its toll in the beginning, and I think that it’s really important to understand when you make this decision that that’s going to come up. And it may – it’s going to be different for everyone. I mean, some people’s friends and family are a little bit more open to this new world – this new age world that we live in. But, you know, I think it’s something that I would encourage everyone to just kind of be ready for. And the only way I can say to be ready for it is to, I suppose, thank them for their opinions and let them kind of wash off your back the best you can. Do you have any other suggestions? Did you experience that yourself, Luke?

LT: I definitely experienced that, and one way I managed to not necessarily get around it but a way of finding people that, like, do understand this, like, burning desire or passion, whatever you want to call it, to go travel is, you know, compared to, like, 15-20 years ago, the fact that we’ve got things like Facebook groups and all these communities online of people that want to do a lot of travelling as well. You know, you can find people that understand what you’re going through and they will give you support and – especially if they’ve been to these places before already, they will be able to, like, squash any fears or anything, like, you’re starting to worry about about a place, if you can talk to somebody that’s already been there, then you know it’s not going to be as bad as what you may think and definitely not as bad as what your parents or friends who are being this negative about your wanting to travel, you know, these people can squash those quite easily too.

So reaching out to online groups, especially digital nomads groups. There are so many of them online. You know, I have a digital nomad group. You know, just search “digital nomad” on Facebook, you find, like, 20,000 groups. So, you know, joining one of those and, you know, being around people, whether it be in person or online, being around these people that understand your desire to travel will definitely, like, help offset the negative feelings and negative opinions that you’re getting from your friends and family.

MB: Absolutely. And I totally agree with everything you say, especially this – I mean, this beautiful thing we have called the internet and Facebook now, it just gives us boundless opportunities to do that networking in ways that – you know, I’ve met a few digital nomads who have been travelling for 20 years who – you know, it was so different back then. And so we really do have these amazing resources at our fingertips that we should be utilising. And I think your next point is actually another great resource that we could be utilising.

LT: Yeah. Have you heard of this one before?

MB: Oh yes.

LT: Perfect.

MB: This was one of my majors.

LT: Cool. So what we’re talking about is a website called nomadlist.com. I’ll put this into the show notes for this episode as well, but basically Nomad List is a website that you can get a lot of information about these different cities that are really popular with digital nomads. You know, you can see the reviews that people have left about the cities or about the countries as well. But the best thing and the thing that I like the most – and I’m sure you probably agree as well – is, like, how you can sort of, like, sort these – you know, if you haven’t decided on where you want to go yet, you can actually sort these cities. They’ve got loads of different categories; you can sort them out by rankings in each of these categories. And – well, I’ll just read the categories out for you now.

So the first one is co-working, you know, so you can rate each city by how good the co-working environments are. You can rank them by how safe they are; the clean air – which, if you haven’t really been travelling or you’re from a pretty nice country already, that probably wouldn’t be something you would think of first up, but clean air is one that you can rank cities by. You can rank it by their nightlife; how friendly the country is; how friendly the people are; you can sort it by beaches, if that’s your thing – if you want a country that has, like, the best beaches or a city that has the best beaches, you know, you can rank each city by beaches; how fun in general the countries are; how female-friendly they are; how gay-friendly they are. This next one isn’t one that really interests me, but it’s whether or not weed is legal in each country.

MB: I didn’t even know about that one.

LT: I didn’t. That must be a new one because the last time I checked that website, that was not on there.

MB: It must be. Yeah.

LT: But clearly that’s important for digital nomads, apparently. Then you can also sort it by internet speed, which is probably one of the most important ones if you’re a nomad. And then also by snow. So if you’re more of a winter person, winter sports, all that sort of stuff, then you can rank each city by how much snow they get as well. So if you have not checked this website out, then I would recommend that you do. I mean, have you found some, like, surprising cities when you’ve checked this website out before?

MB: Yeah. Initially when I made the decision to go (15:37) we were pretty much set on Mexico (15:40) didn’t really know where. And one of the main (15:43) that Nomad List (15:44) went into was the cost of living and what we expect paying for rent or (15:52) or we’re just doing the digital nomad thing, what food kind of costs. They go into fuel and a couple of other things. But we were really looking at that above anything else because we wanted to give our business the best opportunity to kind of pick up off the ground and so we thought, well, if we can keep our costs extremely low, then, you know, we’ve got a much better chance of doing that.

So I know that since I’ve now arrived here, you know, it’s kind of – you get here and now it’s like, okay, where do I go next? Now I’m kind of obsessed with what the next step is, even though it could be months and months away. But I’ve looked at length at, like, Portugal and – I’m thinking Europe next. Not sure. But, yeah, I mean, it just has boundless places in there. You just don’t even realise how widespread digital nomadism is kind of happening around the world.

LT: Yeah. I mean, it really shocked me some of the places that were on this list. You know, places like South Korea. South Korea was not somewhere that I considered that had been popular for digital nomads, but apparently it is.

MB: Wow.

LT: And like you said, it’s a fantastic place – like, you did cut out a little bit at the beginning of your explanation, but did you say that that’s how you picked where you are now?

MB: Yes. Yeah, based on the cost of living. We knew Mexico, but we didn’t know where in Mexico. So it really helped us to kind of narrow that down.

LT: Perfect. Yeah. And like you said, like, Europe is, like, potentially next on your list, and that’s potentially next on mine as well, at least whilst I can still travel around there because, being English, before the whole Brexit thing kicks in - - -

MB: Of course.

LT: Yeah. That’s a whole mindfuck in itself. Don’t even want to get started on all that sort of conversation again.

MB: Yep. Well, see, I’m entitled to an ancestry visa in the UK because my grandfather is British. And so I’ve, like, just been holding onto that card in my back pocket and I was like, oh, we’ll be able to travel through Europe. And now I’m disappointed as well about Brexit because I’m like, hang on a second, I should’ve travelled five years ago.

LT: Oh man. It’s going to make things a little bit more interesting for people who want to travel around Europe, that’s for sure. But, yeah, I mean - - -

MB: (18:08)

LT: I’m considering either, like, Spain or Portugal as well for my next trip. And, like, this Nomad List website is definitely going to be helpful for picking a city in either one of those countries. I mean, Portugal – Lisbon is probably going to be, like, the number one choice. That’s, like, the most popular one. But Spain there’s actually quite a few different cities that you could check out that are, like, very cost effective as well as fun and a good nightlife and good co-working. So I’ll definitely be abusing nomadlist.com for sure, and all of you guys listening should definitely be checking that website out too. If you haven’t quite decided on where you want to go to next or go to for the very first time, definitely check that website out. You could definitely get lost on there for hours, especially if you sit there checking out all the reviews for each place as well. I’ve definitely spent an hour or two at a time on that website for sure.

MB: Yep. You get – you’re probably spoiled for choice, really. You can be overwhelmed by choice.

LT: For sure, yeah. Now, the next topic that we want to talk about isn’t really something that I can relate to but it’s definitely something that I find very interesting for sure. And I will let you kick that one off.

MB: Sure. So something – and I realise that it’s not as common as the alternative, but, you know, for me, I moved overseas with my fiancé, Rory, and it was an interesting experience to go through the whole process of both deciding to go and then kind of dividing up the responsibilities for getting us here and having each other when we finally did get here and the kind of support – I mean, hats off to anyone who does it on their own because, I mean, having done it with Rory and having that support, I don’t know – I think I probably would’ve done it differently and gone into more of a co-living situation, if that had been the case. But, yeah, I think moving overseas with a partner, especially – I mean, even just to make the decision to move overseas was something obviously that we had to be on the same page about from the very beginning, because otherwise I’m sure that the need to travel or the desire to travel has definitely broken up some relationships, I can guarantee. Fortunately, it didn’t break up mine; if anything, it’s strengthened it, thank goodness.

But I think that there is something to be said about the fact that I do highly recommend that people get really clear about who takes on what responsibility, because there’s a lot that goes on – I know for us, you know, we had set up a life in Australia. We had a home. We had four pets. We had, you know, all this gorgeous furniture. We had to do a whole heap of selling and redistributing our animals amongst, you know, various friends and family. And, you know, there was a lot that had to go on. So there’s a lot of task and responsibility that we had to take on, and it was good for us early on to decide who was in charge of what so that we didn’t have any overlaps or kind of arguments about any of it.

LT: Yeah. I mean, that’s definitely something that you need to consider if you are planning on, you know, going on this adventure with a partner. And not only sort of, like, the things that you were talking about as well is if your partner works in your business as well, really, like, set boundaries and, like, divides on, like, what you’re working on in the business as well, because you’re going to be around each other 24/7 – literally 24/7 – and the couples that I’ve spoken to that work together in business as well, you know, you need to have clear divides in who works in what areas of the business, who’s responsible of each area of the business, so, you know, there’s no arguments about, you know, “You’re not doing this right, you’re not doing that right.” No, that’s theirs, this is yours; deal with it, you know.

MB: Yes.

LT: Just communicate with what you’re doing in each part of the business so, you know, you’re both on the same page. But, you know, just let the other person do what they are responsible for in the business and you do you, and that’s going to create – well, that’s going to make life so much easier for both of you when you’re on the road, for damn sure.

MB: Absolutely. I mean, I’m having a bit of a nod-gasm over here, because I’m just – yep, yep, yep. You’re just speaking my language. Because, yeah, Rory and I, we had this really romantic view of “it’s going to be so nice to be together every day” and, you know, that got old pretty quick. We were like – I mean, we love each other, but, you know, there’s only so much love to go around in a day. So, I think, you know – and I love – Jill Stanton of Screw The Nine To Five talks about how she and her husband, Josh, wake up and break up in the mornings and go off and do their own, like, workouts or whatever it is. And I know, like, for Rory, Rory really has to go and get a workout in the morning. And so he’ll head off for an hour or an hour and a half, and that gives me a real – just time to myself, because I think – despite the fact that we don’t drain one another, you do just need that time where you can kind of mellow out and do the stupid, you know, single things that you kind of do when no one else is around. And I think also - - -

LT: Yeah. I mean, after a while, you do get sick of looking at the other person’s face, that’s for sure.

MB: But you know what’s funny too is we found that being together in the same room, we actually have less quality time together because even though we’re in the same room, we don’t interact the same way as when you come home from work and you make that dedicated effort to kind of have a chat about how the day was, and there’s not that intention any more. And so we’ve had to really quite intentionally go out for dates and not talk about the business, because you can get – you know, the business becomes a 24/7 job and it means that you don’t connect on any other level.

LT: Yeah. So, yeah, definitely getting those boundaries is definitely going to not only save your relationship but definitely make travelling and, you know, living in this new country a lot more fun for both of you as well.

MB: Amen. Yep.

LT: For sure. Cool. So the next thing I want to talk about is – we’re going to jump around our notes a little bit here is – we do have differing opinions on selling our stuff before we go to leave.

MB: Yes.

LT: I prefer to, like, get rid of all my stuff in one go, whether or not it’s early on or just before you leave. I mean, both times that I’ve, like, packed all my stuff up to leave to go travelling, I’ve done it all pretty much last minute, within the last, like, week or two of being around. So the reason why I like to, like, sell all my stuff and, you know, just get ready to go on the road is because, for me, it lifts a big weight off my shoulders, knowing that I don’t have to worry about any of this stuff anymore. I’ve gotten to the point where, you know, being able to pack all my stuff into a backpack – because I like to travel carry-on. Being able to pack my entire life into a backpack creates a lot less stress because I don’t need to worry about so much stuff either. And I know your opinion on, you know, when to sell your stuff in advance and why is definitely different. So do you want to, like, tell people what your viewpoint is on this?

MB: Yeah, absolutely. I just want to say first, gosh, I cringe when you’re like, “Yeah, in, like, the week before I left.” I’m like oh god. I’m just having, like, panic. I’m having anxiety just thinking about it. Mind you, your whole, like, living out of a backpack was like – Rory said, “Oh yeah, we’ll move to Mexico with just a backpack.” And I was like, “Rory, we have camera equipment and lights.” And, you know, like, we ended up with four massive suitcases worth of business stuff that we were carrying. So maybe one day.

LT: Well, actually, this trip to Canada, I actually travelled with a load of camera equipment too and still managed to travel carry-on.

MB: Oh god.

LT: Yeah.

MB: You are going to have to tell me how you did it, because we did not manage that.

LT: That could be an entire podcast episode in itself.

MB: It could be. We’ll book it in for a second. But, yeah, so I had a very different approach, being that we made our decision in January of 2016 to make the move, and then I was really planned in advance. And the major reason that I sold – especially – the biggest thing was selling furniture or really anything that would have some kind of value. We went through our entire house and, you know, picked apart the 10 years of belongings that we’d accumulated and tried to sell anything that we could get money for, because a big part of it was we were paying off debt. We had to, you know, be able to afford to get away – and we really needed to move in September, because when we were coming to Mexico, that was low season and we really wanted to kind of get here at a time that we could secure an apartment that was really cheap.

So, yeah, we wanted to make as much money as we could, and so probably four or five months before we were going to leave we started to sell stuff. And we got to a point – we were so successful that we ended up living on camp chairs and a camp table for, like, three months, and our bedroom consisted of a mattress on the ground that we managed to sell, like, the week before and then sleep on a blow-up mattress. So we were, like, probably way too successful. Mind you, we still ended up with several carloads of belongings that went to, like, St Vincent de Paul or, you know, whatever op shop.

But it was just, like, a big process because we had a two-bedroom apartment that was just chock-a-block full that we needed to condense down. And, I mean, I must say now, we’re very excited to be living a minimalistic life. We were very – like, we quite enjoyed the process. Fortunately, I didn’t have too much separation anxiety from any of the stuff that we sold, which I know can be a problem for some people. I’ve looked a little bit into minimising your life, and you sometimes have to grieve the stuff that you get rid of. But fortunately that wasn’t a problem for us.

LT: Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of people that they have taken that approach and, like you said, like, towards the end you were living in camping chairs and a mattress on the floor. So you’re basically, like, your – I’m not going to say your quality of living, like, dropped, like, quickly by selling all your stuff.

MB: Oh yeah, it did. You can say that, because it did.

LT: Okay. Your quality of life dropped a lot, so you, like – you know, you were living a nice life before, then it got really bad because you sold all your stuff too early, but then when you moved life picked back up again.

MB: Yeah.

LT: So maybe it made Mexico seem a lot better than it actually is.

MB: Well, maybe. Yeah.

LT: Maybe, maybe not. Maybe.

MB: Yeah. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

LT: Exactly. So the thing I want people to take away here, though, is, like, you need to decide, like, how much in advance you do want to sell all your stuff and if actually you want to sell your stuff at all. I mean, like, both of our views were, you know, sell everything and, you know, start this new life. But especially for your first time, you know, if you’ve got, like, some family or friends that could, like, look after some of this stuff for you, then I’d definitely, like, get them to do it, at least so if you did come back, like, soon, for whatever reason, that you’ve got some stuff; you’re not starting from scratch completely.

But if you are confident enough that, you know, “No, I’m going to make this work, I want to, you know, be a digital nomad,” then, yeah, decide how quickly you want to sell it; whether it’s four to six months in advance like Madison or you want to be like myself and just get rid of everything a week or two before you leave, you don’t really care how much money you got for it all and, you know, then you’ve got a nice, like, wad of cash that you can start your new life in this new country. Wherever you decide to go, you know, you’ve got a nice little bit of money to get started in this new place. But I do like the fact, though, like, both of our views are very different on this point.

MB: Absolutely.

LT: And, yeah, you know, people can decide which one is right for them.

MB: Absolutely.

LT: So talking about, like, getting a bit of money really quickly is – I know you’ve got something you want to talk about; selling websites.

MB: Yeah. So that was just in terms of, like – so when went to sell our furniture, we were utilising what in Australia is called gumtree.com.au. Otherwise, it’s kind of like a Craigslist if you’re in the US. I’m not sure if Craigslist extends to Canada or where it is, but basically - - -

LT: Canada does have Craigslist, but if you are Canadian then Kijiji is probably the one that you would use.

MB: There you go. Yeah. So that was what we used to sell pretty much everything that we did end up selling, because it was free for us to advertise, it didn’t cost us a cent to put – to actually sell anything other than if we did a little bit of posting of various items. But I’d highly recommend – and even those kind of sites, if you do end up moving to the likes of Australia or Canada or the US – and, I mean, those kind of sites are really everywhere; there are some here in Mexico. They’re great for both finding real estate when you get to wherever you’re going, if you’re looking for a cheaper type of apartment. I know in Australia we even when we were living there just as locals, we often found our rentals through Gumtree because they were often advertised cheaper and you could rent straight through the owner rather than through an agency, which, I mean, some people will say that’s a bad thing; I really preferred it. But, yeah, so I think that they’re a great way to, I suppose, utilise the selling power within your community, but also when you get to somewhere new you can kind of pick stuff up a lot cheaper and have that better quality of life from the beginning.

LT: For sure, for sure. That’s a very good point to make. I never bothered with that when I sold my stuff; I sold most of my stuff to friends and friends of friends. But, yeah, sell it – like, these sorts of websites, definitely check them out. You can, like – especially if you live in, like, a slightly bigger city, you can get rid of a lot of stuff really quickly.

MB: Absolutely.

LT: So definitely check out which ones are the popular ones in your country. Like you said, Craigslist is probably the most popular if you’re in the States; Gumtree is popular if you’re in the UK; Kijiji if you’re in Canada; Gumtree if you’re in Australia. You know, check out what’s popular in your country and, yeah, definitely make use of those as much as you can.

MB: And I just wanted to add too that something that we actually used Gumtree for as well in Australia was to find homes for our pets.

LT: Okay.

MB: So we had two dogs and two cats that we didn’t want to – they’re not actually – they’re still our animals, but we wanted to find someone who would temporarily look after them for, like, two years. And that’s part of the reason also we advertised so early on because we had these, like, furry dependents, and we managed to find successfully a family of six children for our dogs and a couple of girls who were happy to take our cats. And we just paid for their food, but we don’t pay them anything to take care of them. They’re very happily taking care of our animals, and in two years they’re either going to – we’re going to fly them to us or we might go back to Australia.

LT: That’s awesome. I didn’t know you could do that.

MB: Yeah. We didn’t really know either and we started looking into it and was, like, great, we can keep our furry babies.

LT: That’s awesome. Now, I can see that time is getting on us. I want to make one more point really quick and I’d love to hear, like, how you tackled this as well.

MB: Yes.

LT: You know, the entire point of this conversation is all about taking the leap and, you know, you could’ve been planning on doing this trip or you’ve had the idea of doing a trip for a long time, and the last thing I just want to say is that you really do need to just take the leap and just to see how it goes. I mean, when I went to Australia, which was, like, the first big trip that I did, is I had – I booked a one-way flight to Australia and it was a non-refundable. That was sort of, like, my way of, like, not backing out is I didn’t want to waste the £650 or whatever it was that I spent on the ticket to go to Australia, and that I had the first two nights of accommodation booked before I got there. And that was it. So, you know.

MB: Love it.

LT: And everything worked out; I met so many interesting people on the first day there and ended up travelling down the east coast of Australia, ended up getting into scuba diving. That led to Fiji. So everything works out; you just need to take the leap and, you know, give yourself permission to step outside of your comfort zone a little bit and, you know, just at least give it a go. I don’t know, like, your thoughts, you know, necessarily booking a one-way flight and, you know, only having two nights’ accommodation booked, but, you know, you just need to take the leap and just see what happens.

MB: Yeah. I totally support you on that. I know I wasn’t quite as carefree. We did book a one-way flight; we definitely were committing to this life. We had booked about two weeks or 10 days or something worth of accommodation through Airbnb, which is another website everyone should be looking at for those kind of initial days of, like, when you first get somewhere; it’s a great, cheap way to get around if you’re not going to do backpacking. But, yeah, so we did that and the one thing was, though, I was madly looking on the web for apartments because we were going to be staying here for at least six months. So I found our apartment before we even got here, but we hadn’t checked it out so I still booked the accommodation.

But, yeah, one-way ticket, I say, totally take the leap. I know in some instances, like if you go to Canada, like we talked about visas earlier, I think you do have to show that you either have a return ticket or you have to have enough funds to be able to purchase one. So sometimes a one-way might not work in your favour, but I still recommend it if you can for committing to the idea.

LT: For sure. That definitely, like, depends on the visa. If you’re going under a tourist visa, then most countries do require that you have an outbound flight. But I’m not sure how it works in other countries, but I know back in the UK that with certain travel agencies you can pay a little bit extra for the ticket and then you have, like, unlimited – you can adjust your flights or you can, like, rebook your flight or change the date of the flight; whatever. You know, you can do that an unlimited number of times for, like, a small fee.

MB: Yep.

LT: So if you are going to a place under a tourist visa, then definitely check, you know, if an option like that is available to you as well and that way, you know, if you didn’t like the place but you had an outbound flight six months later, you can move it forward, or you loved it so much you can move it backwards. Definitely check something like that out. Awesome. That was a fantastic conversation, Madison. Hopefully you guys listening learned quite a lot from this. I’m going to leave a lot in the notes of the – like, the resources that we mentioned in this chat in the show notes page for this episode. But, more importantly, Madison, are you ready for your quick-fire session?

MB: Fire them away. I’m ready.

LT: Perfect. So I’m literally going to fire the next question away as soon as you’ve given me an answer.

MB: Cool.

LT: So question number one: what is the favourite country that you’ve been to?

MB: Mexico.

LT: Tough choice. What is the last YouTube video or movie that you’ve watched?

MB: Ever After.

LT: Ever After. I’ve never heard of that. What is the weirdest thing you’ve eaten?

MB: Weirdest thing I’ve eaten. Hasn’t been that weird yet, but there is a funny sausage thing here in Mexico that I don’t really know what kind of meat it is. But it tastes good.

LT: Funny Mexican sausage. I’ll take that answer. What is your favourite drinking game?

MB: Have to be King’s Cup. You would have to know King’s Cup, having been to Australia.

LT: Of course. Why is that one your favourite?

MB: Because I always lose and have to drink the cup, and I somehow love it.

LT: If you could meet one person, living or dead, who would it be?

MB: Taylor Swift.

LT: Good choice. What is one book that you would recommend everybody should read?

MB: Oh my gosh, there are so many. I’m reading The Big Leap right now, so I would recommend that one.

LT: Good choice. Good choice. What is your go-to song when you need to get in the mood to get shit done?

MB: Shake It Off by Taylor Swift.

LT: Big T. Swift fan here.

MB: Yep.

LT: What is your favourite swearword you’ve learnt in another language?

MB: Oh god. I don’t know that I know any in another language, other than “merde”.

LT: And what does that mean?

MB: “Shit” in French.

LT: Perfect. I think, especially being in Mexico, Spanish, “puta”. That’s my favourite Spanish word.

MB: Yes. “Puta”, yeah. I did know that one.

LT: “Bitch”. What is your favourite podcast, apart from this one?

MB: My favourite podcast is Hamish and Andy, a comedy podcast in Australia.

LT: Good, good, good choice.

MB: Yep.

LT: And, finally, give me your best travel story that you have in under five minutes.

MB: So when we first arrived in Mexico, within about a week when we got our apartment, we went shopping to buy a little oven for our apartment. And on the way back in the taxi, my phone, which was in Rory’s pocket, fell out, unbeknownst to us, and we lost it. And I was pretty devastated; had, you know, an iPhone 6 or something. And, you know, we’d just got here and was like, oh shit, now I don’t have a phone and, you know, I had to think about, okay, what are we going to do in terms of travel insurance and whatever else. Anyway, got the travel insurance out and it got that paid out.

And then about three weeks after we’d lost it, we were walking down the road and this taxi pulled over, which was a little bit scary because they normally just beep at you to say, “Do you want a ride?” But this guy pulled over and he said, “Were you in this taxi a couple of weeks ago and, like, had a phone?” And I was like, oh my god, and I recognised him and I went, “Oh my god, yes, yes. We had a” – this is all in broken Spanglish. And he said, “Yes, I kept it. I tried looking for you and I couldn’t find you and I have it at my apartment.” I was like, “Oh my god.” And we organised a time and, yeah, at five o’clock that afternoon he arrived and I got my phone back after three weeks and gave him a bit of my money, and now I have my phone.

LT: Awesome. And, see guys, even though you’ve gone to Mexico, which a lot of people would say would be a little bit sketchy and a little bit dangerous, that people hunt you down just to return your phone that you lost three weeks ago.

MB: Yep. I couldn’t believe it. So pleased.

LT: Awesome story. Thank you very much, Madison. So, Madison, thank you very much for coming onto the show today. Where can people find you online?

MB: Thank you for having me. You can find me at theslowhealthmovement.com.

LT: Perfect. And if people can reach out to you, can they just email you on there?

MB: Yeah. You’re more than welcome to contact us through the website, or if you jump in we have got a Facebook community if you go to slowcommunity.com where we’re just breaking down all things slow health.

LT: Perfect. And, guys, I will put the links to both of those in the show notes for this episode too. So, again, thank you very much, Madison. Enjoy your time in Mexico, and hopefully the construction upstairs doesn’t go on late into the night.

MB: I appreciate that. Thanks so much, Luke.

LT: Thank you very much. Take care, Madison.

- END OF TRANSCRIPT -