TMD 011 : Keeping Productivity High Whilst Avoiding Procrastination and “A One Way Ticket To Paris That Changed Everything” with Kate Erickson

LT: So, Kate, thank you so much for agreeing to come on to the show with me today and co-hosting this episode.

KE: Luke Benjamin Thomas, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

LT: You are more than welcome. And I did give you – I did introduce you to all the dudes and dudettes before in the intro, so would you like to introduce yourself to everyone anyway, just letting everybody know who you are, what you do online and maybe, like, a brief travel history as well.

LT: Okay, for sure. My name’s Kate Erickson. I am life partners with John Lee Dumas, who is the host of EOFire. It’s a seven-day-a-week business podcast where John interviews today’s most inspiring and successful entrepreneurs, and I came on board the team about six months post-launch of that podcast. So that was back in April of 2013. Ever since then, we’ve kind of been rocking and rolling as partners in business and in life, absolutely loving what we’re doing. You know, it’s so incredible to receive really special emails and very deep emails about how the podcast and what we’re doing online is impacting and affecting people’s lives and, you know, that’s just such a huge motivator to continue sharing our journey and sharing our story and sharing what we know about running an online business.

So that’s me up-to-date most recently. We moved to Puerto Rico in May of 2016, so that has been quite the life shift for us. We were in San Diego before that. And we’ve bounced around a few times together. We met in San Diego, moved to Portland, Maine which is where John’s from, back to San Diego, now we’re in Puerto Rico. So that’s kind of a little look at, I guess, my travel/living history. But I’m also a huge fan of Europe, and I absolutely love travelling. John and I have been very lucky with the business that we’ve created and the lifestyle we’ve created to be able to travel a lot. So I’m sure we’ll be getting into more of that during and throughout the episode.

LT: For damn sure we will be. So I’ve been, like, following both of you for a while, because I know you have your own podcast as well under, like, the EOFire brand. So both you and John have your own sort of, like, podcasts. And I think both of you have a ridiculously good, like, work ethic and, like, your productivity is, like, ridiculous. Like, everybody talks about, like, how John, like, records all of his episodes on, like, a Monday or whatever day of the week it is, and he’s, like, three months ahead of a seven-day-a-week podcast. I think that’s just ridiculous.

KE: I agree. I totally agree. It’s so funny actually that you say that because today, as we’re recording this episode, he’s moved to – he used to do one day a week where he would do seven interviews and, you know, he would go back-to-back-to-back. So once a week, seven interviews a day. Now he’s moved it to two days per month, and he does 15 back-to-back interviews in one day.

LT: What.

KE: But he does two of those days right in a row, and today is his second day of 15 back-to-back interviews. Totally insane.

LT: Okay. I say this in the nicest way possible, but he is fucking insane.

KE: How does anybody do that?

LT: That is ridiculous. 15 episodes. And they’re, like, a good, like, 40 minutes each, aren’t they?

KE: So he’s actually, like, he’s nailed it down so to the tee that he’s probably finishing – the episodes run, like, 25 minutes. So he has everything scheduled 40 minutes. Every 40 minutes he’s on a new chat.

LT: Wow.

KE: Yeah.

LT: So I think that is a prime example of why I wanted you to come on and help talk about the topic we’re going to talk about today, which is how to keep your productivity high and avoiding procrastination.

KE: Yes.

LT: So the first thing that I would love to talk about, something that I need to work on myself, which I think will definitely help with keeping productivity high and that is doing something like an editorial calendar. I’m not sure if that’s something that, like, either you guys do, but I know, for me, the times that I have done it, it’s really helped, like, thinking, like, three months into the future, what sort of content I need to create, whether that’s blog posts, videos or podcasts, and sort of, like, planning out what the topics are going to be and then I can just sit down and just write everything or record everything and I’m good to go.

KE: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, everyone tuning in to this chat can probably relate to an editorial calendar. I’m sure that they’re creating some type of content, whether, like you said, it be a blog or a podcast or videos or something like that, where an editorial calendar comes in super, super handy. But, like, even at the baseline of that, to take a step back even. It’s just planning.

LT: Yeah.

KE: Like, such a huge part of productivity is having a plan in place. And in my experience, people kind of seem to get freaked out about planning because they might think, like, “Oh, historically, I’m not really that good at details,” or, “I’ve never been, like, in project management,” or, “I’m not really good at managing my time.” And these are just all excuses and things that we tell ourselves to try and act like somebody else needs to put a plan in place for us, which is never going to help you become more productive. Like, you need to learn how to put a plan in place, and it’s not hard to do.

LT: No. And one of the mistakes sort of, like, I made at the beginning when – because I made the mistake of not doing that, and my thought was, “Why should I waste time putting a plan together when I can just go ahead and write something or create something to throw out?” And that is the wrong way of looking at.

KE: Right. I feel like in those situations you start spinning your wheels, because if you just dive in without any sort of plan in place – like, I’m not trying to say you have to have literally, you know, 17 of your next steps planned out. Like, maybe you don’t have to have that many steps planned out. But know just what your next step is.

LT: Yeah.

KE: Like, the most immediate next step that you need to take because then if you were to say, like, “Okay, instead of putting a plan in place, I’m just going to start writing because I have this topic on my mind and I’m super fired up about it and I’m in my creative space,” or whatever and you just start writing, then what happens when you finish writing. You’re going to be like, “Hmm, okay, well, I finished it. Like, should I publish it now or should I create the image or should I go back to doing what I was actually supposed to be doing right now?” Like, you know, then you just kind of find yourself in this repetitive circle of ending a task and not really knowing what to do next. And that in and of itself is such a time waster. Like, to be productive, you need to know what your next step is going to be so that you don’t have those time periods where five, 10, 15 minutes go by where you’re just kind of thinking, like, “Hmm, I wonder what I should work on next?”

LT: Yeah. I mean, most people when they’re planning an editorial calendar, they’ll either plan out specifically what exact, like, blog posts, like, the topic the blog post is going to be and maybe, like, theme them out. So this month’s going to be about this topic and the following month’s going to be about this topic. Or they just block out time saying, “On Monday, Wednesday and Friday this week I’m going to be writing. On Tuesday and Thursday next week I’m going to be creating the images for that post,” and, like, planning out every other day, like, in between as well. Is that something that, like, you guys do right now? Do you guys, like, plan sort of, like, quarterly or, like, plan out the whole year in advance?

KE: Not even close. And that’s another reason – you know, when you think about, like, people who get a lot of stuff done, like John doing 15 interviews in one day; that’s super crazy. Like, how do you get that done? You have kind of alluded to it a couple times, but batching and theming have been so huge for us. Batching, as you know, is just taking like tasks and putting them into one timeframe together. So instead of saying, you know, “I’m going to write Monday, Wednesday and Friday,” like, why not just write on Monday. Because once you get into the groove of writing something and you’re in that frame of mind, you can get a lot more writing done if you just do it all back-to-back-to-back instead of saying, like, “Okay, I just got in my writing groove but actually now I’m going to record a podcast episode.”

The context switching that happens there – and I’m not, like, a mind person at all, but I’ve read a lot about this. The amount of time that you waste when you context switch is, like, unbelievable, even if you don’t realise it. You know, the time that it takes you to say, “Okay, I’m going to stop writing now and now I’m going to record a podcast, so let me take out my microphone, let me connect it, let me open Adobe Edition, let me do mic checks.” Like, all these things that you could be doing one time in order to accomplish recording five episodes or writing five blog posts versus switching back and forth.

So I think that that’s a big part of it, and John and I absolutely do that. All of our days are either themed or batched. So a perfect example is John’s two days at the beginning of the month where he does Monday and Tuesday. Those are always going to be when he records his episodes. Like, there’s no guessing games about that. Wednesdays are set out for our webinar days. If we have a community webinar for Podcasters’ Paradise, if we’re doing a webinar to try and bring new members into Podcasters’ Paradise, if we have a live Q&A call, like, any webinar that we’re doing, chances are, nine times out of 10, it’s going to be on Wednesdays. So when you start to set up your schedule in these ways so that you’re either batching or theming your day, even just knowing that ahead of time is going to help you better plan. Because instead of looking at a five-day work week and being like, “Hmm, I could do any of this whenever so, like, I don’t have to do it now because I still have Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday to do it.”

Instead of looking at your week like that, how much better and more productive is it going to be if you look at Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and say, “Monday’s going to be my writing day, Tuesday’s going to be my podcast day, Wednesday is going to be my webinar day, Thursday is going to be my community day and Friday is going to be kind of, like, my catch-all, catch-up day.” And so that’s what we do. So as opposed to looking at it, like, we plan out an entire quarter at a time or we plan out an entire year at a time, it’s more like getting just the day-to-day structure in place so that when things do come up, you’re kind of putting them in their day or batch slot versus, like, two weeks or three weeks out from now.

LT: Yeah. I mean, that’s a great example of batching, for sure, and, like, planning out your week. I think that that is the way that it should be done; it’s something that I’m trying to work on myself right now. Like, for this podcast, for example, I’ve – well, during the first eight weeks of this podcast, I am publishing three episodes every single week. But I’m not spending three days a week recording these episodes, you know. I’ve recorded all 28 episodes from the day that I launched to, you know, the end of week number eight. I’ve recorded all 28 episodes before I even launched the podcast.

KE: Right.

LT: So during that time, I can focus on other things. And like with John for example, he’s recording all 30 episodes for the month in two days which frees up so much sort of, like, brain space to focus on other things for that month.

KE: Yeah, for sure.

LT: So I think that’s probably one of the best things about batching content is you can get, like, everything you want to do for the month or for two months all knocked out in – for argument’s sake – say, the first week of the two months, and that gives you the rest of those two months to focus on other parts of your business. And I think that is what everybody should be doing.

KE: Agreed.

LT: So the next thing that I would love to talk about and something that I think I’m definitely getting better at, and that is finding ways to remain productive. And I did ask my Facebook group for a few questions to ask you because, like I said, you guys are sort of, like, up on that – I don’t want to say up on the pedestal, but you guys pretty much are.

KE: Yeah, no way.

LT: Pretty much are. Like you said, like, John’s just, like, sick in the head for recording 15 episodes a day. But, like, he’s known for being really, like, productive with his time. So one of the questions that, like, the Dude Brood asked and that is, like, how do you stick to that work ethic with all the distractions out there and sort of, like, how do you manage those distractions. Now, personally, I find turning off all notifications, whether that’s on your computer or on your phone, especially in the times when you’re saying, “Right, today I’m going to be batching out four blog posts for the month,” or four podcast episodes, whatever. Turn off all those things that’s going to, like, draw your attention away from what you should be doing, mainly your phone. Turn all of those off and then you can focus, like, on the task at hand.

And I also find listening to music really helps. Like, a lot of people find just sticking on a set of headphones or, you know, cranking out some whatever YouTube playlist you want to play. Music, for me at least, plays a big part in remaining focused. I like listening to rock music, which some people can’t believe because it’s, like, so loud and, like, distracting. I just find that just, like, drowns everything out around me that I can focus on doing what I’m doing. So is there anything, like, you guys do to sort of, like, eliminate those distractions that just are naturally going to crop up sort of, like, every minute of the day?

KE: Yeah, for sure. Well, you mentioned, like, music. And something that John’s a huge fan of that I can’t do it is focus@will, which is, like, a software app program on your computer. You can sign up for free or I believe you can get a subscription-type thing. But it’s music or ambience that’s actually proven to help you focus. So having something like that if you feel like you have trouble focusing would be something to test out, for sure. I’m not saying it’s going to work for everyone. Like I said, whenever John and I are working in the same room together and he has his focus@will on, the second he leaves the room I go and I turn it off. For some reason, it just doesn’t work for me. But, funny enough, what really works for me is, like, going to a coffee shop. And like you said, you know, a lot of people are like, “I can’t work in a coffee shop. There’s too many distractions, people walking around and lots of noise and clinging cups and registers and money flailing around.” Like, for whatever reason, that kind of gets me in my zone, like, I can do that.

So if you feel number one like your work environment is not a place where you can become distraction-free, then you need to change your work environment. A lot of people find it hard to believe that we work from home and that, like, I’m not tempted to go clean the house or, I don’t know, go outside and go for a walk or go swim in the pool. But this is a commitment that I make, and it’s a commitment that everyone can make. Like, do you want to get work done and make progress and accomplish your goals or do you want to continue to let distractions be an excuse for you. You have the choice to remove distractions; you have the choice to change your work environment; you have the choice to test out different things, try focus@will, go to a coffee shop. You know, whatever your distractions are, try and remove them.

For me, for a long time, at the old place we lived in, for whatever reason – it’s not a problem at the new place that we live in, but at the old place that we lived in one of my big excuses or my, you know, go-to procrastination thing was, like, “Hmm, I don’t really feel like working on what I’m supposed to work on right now, so I better go clean the kitchen.” Like, that was my thing. I would go wash dishes; I would go, like, arrange spices; like, weird stuff, okay. That was my excuse and my way of procrastinating and my distraction for not doing what I should’ve been doing. So if there are things like that that you find are kind of your go-to excuses and once you start consciously trying to pick out these things, like, you will start to recognise them, for sure, because sometimes they’re totally subconscious. When I recognised that that was my excuse, that became a part of my morning routine. Every single morning before I started work, I would clean the kitchen. Like, it just became part of what I did before I started work so that when I was at work it couldn’t be an excuse for me.

So those are, like, a couple tips. Again, I think the biggest part is just being conscious of your work environment and making a commitment to focus on what you’re supposed to be doing. We’ve talked a lot about planning and batching and theming your days; when you have that sort of stuff laid out in front of you, it’s going to become so much easier to not let distractions get in your way because you know exactly what you’re supposed to be doing right now.

LT: Yeah. And you said something very important there as well, and that’s to test out different things. And this is something that, like, can take a while. I mean, it definitely was something that took a while for me to figure out what works best for me. You know, with, like, the type of music you want to listen to, whether that’s something like focus@will or I’ve tried something called Brain.fm which I find – it doesn’t work too well for me to focus on things, but they do have, like, a sleep track that works, like, brilliant for me.

KE: Awesome.

LT: Like, I can fall asleep in, like, five minutes; it’s amazing. But, you know, playing around with different types of music that might work for you or something that I found very helpful, at least at the beginning when I found it hard to, like, sit and focus on – especially something that’s, like, a big task and that’s, like, a little bit daunting. Obviously try and, like, break it up into sections, but I found something called the Pomodoro – I don’t know if I’m saying that right or it just sounds stupid with my accent.

KE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

LT: But the Pomodoro technique, I found that to be something that worked really well for me. And if you’re not sure what the Pomodoro technique is, it’s where you sit down for just 25 minutes and you just focus completely on whatever it is that you’re doing. After those 25 minutes are up, you can spend five minutes, like, taking a break. So you can, like – the things that would’ve distracted you, like, throughout the day, during those five minutes is when you can go look at them. But only for five minutes, and then you’re back into another 25-minute, like, bout or whatever you want to call it. And, like, a lot of people say, like, you can – so that’s, like, a 30-minute piece. So you do that, like, four times in a row; you just smashed out two hours of work which you probably would have got a lot more done in just those two hours than you would the entire day if you, like, spent eight hours at your desk without, like, a plan in place or without, like, anything to, like, eliminate those distractions like we were talking about beforehand. So I think we’ve, like, covered this topic really well, like, in such a short space of time. Like, we’re only, like, 20 minutes in and I think we’ve pretty much nailed it.

KE: Well, that’s good to hear. I love that you brought up the Pomodoro technique, by the way, because I feel like it’s kind of micro-batching almost. And I will put in, like, one kind of tip that – you know, like, when something seems so natural to you but maybe to other people they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve never thought about that before.” Something that works so, so well for me with distractions – and this kind of goes along with the Pomodoro technique – is if I’m ever focused on a task or a project or something, whatever I’m doing, and, like, something pops into my mind, like, “Oh my gosh, I have to remember to do that,” or, “Oh my gosh, I meant to order that on Amazon yesterday,” whatever the distraction may be, I keep a pad of paper next to me or I use this online program called WorkFlowy which I’m totally obsessed with. It’s, like, a super easy notetaking system. And I just make a quick note of whatever it is that has just distracted me. For whatever reason, like, just getting it down on paper or, like, in my notes kind of helps me, like, be at ease about the fact that I’m not going to forget about it. Like, I can go back to it later but I’m not going to let it distract me right now. So that’s been a huge help for me. If I’m focused on working on something, I know that I’m not supposed to be distracted right now. Anything that pops up, just write it down on a piece of paper; you can get to it at the end of the day or during your break or whatever.

LT: Yeah. That’s a good point, actually. I’ve got, like, a whiteboard on the wall behind me which you guys listening can’t see, but, like, Kate pointed it out when we first jumped onto the call. And that’s what we call a scrum board where it’s a great way that you can, like, list out all the tasks that you need to get done. There’s three columns: one is backlog, so you write down all the things that you want on, like, little post-it notes, stick them in that column; and then you’ve got a doing column, so as you’re doing the task you move that post-it note into the middle; and once you’ve done it, you move it into the done column. So it’s just those three. And I’ve found that to be a great way to focus on tasks as well, because it’s so satisfying moving that thing into that done column that it’s really going to spur you on to, like, try and get as many of those things into the done column as possible. And talking about, like, taking notes, you know, when something gets in your head. So instead of letting it chew you up and distract you from whatever you’re supposed to be doing, I’ve got another section on my board called miscellaneous.

So I write down all of my random thoughts or random things that I know I need to get done at some point and just chuck them in that section, and then when I do have some free time I can then move it into the doing and then done column as well. So I think that is a great way of eliminating distractions, like – because a lot of people might come up with ideas, like, during the shower or on, like, walks or whatever it is. But I’m definitely one of those people – I’m doing something and whatever it is I’m doing triggers something else and I’m just like, “Oh my god, yeah, that’d be a fucking great idea, I want to do that.” And then normally it would distract you and you’d just go, like, check it out or do some research on it, and then the task that you were doing before just gets left right behind. So, yeah, definitely take notes, use a scrum board, use a pad of paper; whatever works best for you. And don’t let something like that distract you either.

KE: Yeah. And, like, a scrum or a task board – you know, like you said, you get, like, super motivated to be able to move more things into your done column. That can be such a driver in, you know, if you’re feeling like, “I’m not necessarily feeling like diving into this project right now.” Like, when you have a reward for yourself or you have that gratification or you know that feeling of being able to check something off a list, of being able to crumple up your sticky note, of being able to move your sticky note into the done column instead of the doing column, like, these are all things that are going to help us gain momentum, drive motivation, to continue working on the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. There’s such a snowball effect that people who procrastinate and use distractions as excuses, they don’t really know the feeling which is why they can’t grasp onto it. Once you know the feeling, I can promise you you’re not going to want to let it get away.

LT: And for those of you that don’t have the luxury of having a whiteboard that you can put sticky notes onto, there is a great online tool for free called Trello which works exactly the same way. You can create your columns and create little – I think they call them notes in Trello, and you can create your notes, like would be your sticky note, and you can drag those across columns as well. So Trello for those of you that don’t – well, can’t have a whiteboard. So before we move to the final part of this talk, Kate, there’s one other question I’d love to ask you that came from the community as well. And that is how do you and John visualise and break down sort of, like, the large goals or the big picture goals that you want to, like, try and achieve for maybe the year or three years or five years.

KE: So John and I are very lucky to have each other because it’s kind of like a built-in accountability mastermind support, like, all the things person that, you know, we have access to all the time, and I recognise that not everybody has that. So, for us, like, when we’re looking at, like, a bigger task or a project that we want to kind of start breaking down or brainstorming, we set aside time to sit down together and start talking about it. And either John will come into my office, I’ll go into his office; we either have a computer or a whiteboard or a notepad or something with us to where, you know, we can just start talking about it. There’s no format or, like, certain questions that we ask ourselves every time; it’s kind of more of, like, an open, free-flowing conversation like we’re having right now about, you know, how do you think we could best accomplish this or what do you think the steps are that we’re going to have to take to get this done. And after about 30 minutes, we usually have a pretty solid outline that I can then take and start actually creating a plan out of.

Now, if you don’t have somebody like that, I highly recommend finding an accountability partner or a mastermind group that you can be a part of so that you do have someone you can go to to brainstorm ideas and hash out, like, bigger projects or tasks that maybe you’re thinking, like, “This is so huge. I have no idea where to start.” Sometimes just having a conversation with another person or even, like, an online community that you’re a part of, a Facebook group or a LinkedIn community. You know, pop the question in there; ask other people for feedback, “Hey, I’m trying to accomplish X, Y and Z.” Make sure it’s a SMART goal – specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and time-bound. And then you’ll give other people the opportunity to be able to give you feedback, help you, support you with that. So that’s kind of, like, generally speaking.

But I guess to get just a little bit more tactical, when you have, like, this big thing that just seems not super easy to nail down and you’re just not really sure because you’ve never done it before, the first step that I always like to take is to try and envision something that you have done before that is in some way, shape or form related to what it is that you’re trying to do, even if it’s not the same thing, even if you don’t think it has any relevance. Like, let me see if I can think of a random example. So let’s say that you want to write your first book and you’ve never written a book before and you have no idea where to start; like, this is a huge project, right. How many chapters is it going to be? What am I going to talk about? Who’s going to edit it for me? What’s the book cover going to look like? What platform am I going to publish it on? Like, you don’t know any of these things. And some of the questions that I just asked, you might not even know that you need to ask yourself those questions.

But if you think of it and you say, like, “Okay, I want to publish a book. So let me try and think about other things that I’ve worked on before that might help inform some of the steps that I need to take. Well, I do have a blog and I do publish blog posts. So blog posts are kind of like chapters of a book. Like, what if I went back to, you know, the first five blog posts I ever published and kind of take a look at how I came up with those topics and how I formatted those posts and how I came up with the idea to title them that way.” Like, these are little things that you can start creating steps out of that are at least going to help you get started versus thinking, like, “I have no idea how to write a book. Like, I just can’t get started.”

LT: That is perfect. That is something that I’m, like, looking into, like, publishing a book myself. I’ve written it already; it was a drinking games book that I wrote when I was in Fiji.

KE: Love it.

LT: But I have no idea on how to self-publish. And going back to talking about, like, mastermind groups and, you know, the communities, I’m in, like, a few communities myself. I have three mastermind groups as well. Thankfully, though, there’s, like, a couple people in those communities who have done that before. So, you know, I can, like, bounce some ideas off of them, saying like, “How did you do this?” Or, “What are some things that I need to think about when it comes to publishing this book in the future?”

KE: Yeah.

LT: Like, the platforms and all those things that you talked about. So I definitely get behind finding mastermind groups or joining, like, Facebook groups that can give you some feedback on some of the ideas that you’re thinking, especially for those of, like, people that are digital nomads who – or people that just, like, travel around solo. Like you said, you know, you and John are lucky that you have each other; you can bounce these ideas off. And a lot of people that are travelling, especially solo travelling, they don’t have anybody around them that, one, even know anything about online business or, like, even bother doing something like that, or anybody that understands, you know, saying, “This is something I want to achieve.” They wouldn’t even know sort of, like, how to respond to that. So, yeah, definitely find some, like, Facebook groups.

Obviously you’ve got the Dude Brood. So if you do have, like, any questions about anything that we spoke about here, then feel free to, like, pop them in there and I’ll help you guys out as much as possible, you know. But there are loads of other Facebook groups out there as well, which I think will be great, you know, especially if you find one that’s, like, specific on the topic that you’re, like, having troubles in. They are sort of, like, limitless stores of help and information. So mastermind groups and Facebook groups, yeah, they will definitely be able to help you break down some of those big ideas that you may have that people around you – especially if you’re travelling – might not be able to help you with or understand, like, what you’re trying to do.

KE: Yeah.

LT: So, Kate, this has been fantastic. Before you go, though, we do have one last thing to do, and that is the rapid-fire question session.

KE: Cool.

LT: Are you ready for this?

KE: I’m ready. Yes, I am, I think.

LT: So I want the first answer that comes into your head.

KE: Okay.

LT: And it doesn’t matter if you think it’s a good or bad answer; it doesn’t matter.

KE: Cool.

LT: So very first question: what is your favourite country that you’ve travelled to so far?

KE: I would have to say France.

LT: What is the last YouTube video or movie that you’ve watched?

KE: It was a trailer for a podcast documentary called The Messengers.

LT: I’ve seen that. That looks, like, awesome. I can’t wait for that.

KE: Yeah, I’m really excited for it.

LT: Number three: what’s the weirdest thing that you’ve eaten?

KE: Oh gosh. I’m not adventurous when it comes to food. I’m kind of at a loss because if I think something sounds gross or weird, I won’t try it. I sound like a five-year-old. I guess squid, which a lot of people love, but I think that is very weird.

LT: No, I’m with you on that one. I think squid’s weird. Just the texture. Yeah, no. You’ll never catch me – yeah.

KE: It’s all chewy. Gross.

LT: Yep. No, not for me either.

KE: Number four: what’s your favourite drinking game?

KE: I like Heads Up. I don’t know if that’s necessarily considered a drinking game, but I play it when I’m drinking.

LT: You can easily turn that one into a drinking game.

KE: Yeah.

LT: So I need to add that one to my book, actually. Number five: if you could meet one person, living or dead, who would it be? It’s a tough one.

KE: Oh man.

LT: First person you think of.

KE: I know. Benjamin Franklin came into my head, for whatever reason, so there you go.

LT: I’ll take it. Number six: name one book you would recommend everybody should read.

KE: Essentialism by Greg McKeown.

LT: What is your go-to song – this one’s actually going to be tough because you said you don’t listen to music. But what is your go-to song when you need to get into the mood to get shit done?

KE: Okay. So, yeah.

LT: Or maybe your workout jam.

KE: My workout jam? Maybe, like, a little Justin Timberlake or something.

LT: I could definitely get behind that one. I love JT. I listen to him all the time. What’s your favourite swearword that you’ve learnt in another language?

KE: I’ll say the first word that came to mind, but I’m not really sure it’s a swearword and I don’t really like it that much. But doesn’t “pinche” mean something bad in Spanish?

LT: I have no idea.

KE: I should know this, because I’m living in Puerto Rico. A few people have yelled it to me on the side of the street, so – no, I’m just kidding. But - - -

LT: I’ll take it. Number nine: what is your favourite podcast, apart from this one?

KE: I love Amy Porterfield’s Online Marketing Made Easy.

LT: That’s definitely a good one. And, finally, can you give me your best travel story you have in under five minutes.

KE: Awesome. Okay. So when I was growing up, I always kind of, like, dreamed of travel. It was almost a little bit like this unattainable thing, like, how am I ever going to have the time, the money, the resources, the bandwidth, like, all the things, you know. I had all these excuses for why I couldn’t travel, but it was something that I wanted to do so badly. So back in 2013, I attended this transformational training, like, seminar course type thing. And during it, they basically are trying to get you to uncover limiting beliefs that you have and it really was, like, a huge life-changer for me. And during that event and kind of, like, after in the follow-up of it, my group leader or whatever you want to call her really called me out on talking about travel a lot but I didn’t have any travel stories to share because, again, all my limiting beliefs were I don’t have the time, the money, the resources, the bandwidth, yadda-yadda-yadda. So she’s like, “What’s holding you back from just booking a ticket?”

And at the time, I was working with EOFire. Like, I didn’t have to submit for a vacation time-off request. You know, money was pretty tight; it’s not like it was – it’s not like it is now. We weren’t totally financially independent, and so that was kind of holding me back a little bit, feeling like I can’t take the trip that I want because I don’t have enough money. So, anyhow, during that phone call, she was like, “Your homework, like, what I want you to do to kind of help yourself, like, break through this limiting belief of, like, you can’t travel is to go book a ticket somewhere, like, now.” I went back to our apartment – we were living in a one-bedroom apartment in San Diego – and I told John. I was, like, “Look, we’ve been talking about taking a trip to Europe for a really long time now. Let’s book our ticket.” And we went online and we booked a ticket to France, Paris, and we just did a one-way ticket because we knew we’d have to kind of figure out – like, we wanted to make it a multi-country destination type thing. So we’re, like, as long as we have the first place we’re going to go, we can figure out the rest as we go.

So that night we booked our tickets to Paris, and I think it was probably about six months later we did a two-week totally unplugged vacation. We visited five different countries in Europe, had an absolute blast and it was just such a game-changer for me, like, in terms of my mindset, my limiting beliefs and I really feel like taking that leap, taking that step and doing something that was so uncomfortable and scary to me at the time has opened up so many doors for me. It’s opened up my mind to what’s possible and that if we really want to achieve something or we really want to see something in our lives, like, we can create that. So, yeah, that’s my travel story. Those two weeks were, like, the most incredible trip I’ve ever taken and I can’t wait to do it again.

LT: That’s awesome. And, like, my first sort of, like, travel experience was booking a one-way ticket as well.

KE: Yeah.

LT: And it has definitely changed my life. Like, not only would I not have, like, got into, like, the whole digital nomad scene but I probably would’ve been the same shy guy that would, like, barely – well, I wouldn’t even, like, talk to strangers. Whereas now I can talk to anybody about pretty much anything.

KE: Yeah.

LT: And that’s all because I bought a one-way ticket to Australia.

KE: Wow.

LT: And, you know, when I did go back to England, I think it was like 15 months later, like, everybody from back home did not recognise the person I was.

KE: Wow.

LT: Because I was one of those shy people that, you know, I’d go out – like, not out of the house but, you know, like, go out into town for, like, a night out maybe like three times a year or, you know, I was pretty much scared to talk to a stranger and stuff like that. And now I can, like, have 30-minute conversations with complete strangers about, I don’t know, fucking bottle caps or something, like, really random.

KE: Yeah.

LT: And, yeah, travelling definitely changes everything about you.

KE: Yeah.

LT: Not only finding out the type of person you are but just, like you said, opens you up to all these new experiences.

KE: It’s a learning experience that you can’t replace in any other way.

LT: Exactly. And that’s why I encourage everybody to travel. If you haven’t done something yet, just go book your one-way ticket.

KE: Yes.

LT: So, Kate, thank you so much for coming on to the show today and dropping some bombs on how people can avoid procrastination.

KE: You’re so welcome. I’m super glad we had this chat, and thank you. I’m so grateful for your time.

LT: You are more than welcome. And if people wanted to reach out to you online, where is the best place that they can find you?

KE: EOFire.com is where all the magic happens.

LT: And I will be linking that in the show notes for today’s episode. So, guys, please, give me, like, a round of applause in the background for today’s episode.

KE: Yay.

LT: I absolutely loved it. So, Kate, thank you so much again for coming on and hopefully we get to talk again soon.

KE: All right. Chat soon.

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